What we talked about
Welcome back to The PreVetted Podcast, where we spotlight extraordinary people and remarkable talent reshaping our world.
Show notes
Poya Osgouei joins the PreVetted Podcast for episode 5.
Full transcript
[00:00:00:01 - 00:00:01:16] (Music)
[00:00:01:16 - 00:00:09:15] Federico Ramallo Welcome to the Irregular Expression, irregular podcast where we gather and share wisdom from leaders across fields, various fields.
[00:00:10:14 - 00:00:16:13] Federico Ramallo This podcast is sponsored by Density Labs, the leading IT staff augmentation service company.
[00:00:17:15 - 00:00:25:56] Federico Ramallo Today, our guest is Poya Osgei. He’s a founder and CEO of Modern GTM. He specializes in go-to-market strategies for B2B companies.
[00:00:26:59 - 00:00:28:21] Federico Ramallo Welcome, Poya. How are you doing today?
[00:00:28:21 - 00:00:38:37] Poya Osgouei Fantastic. It’s Friday. I’m in a good mood. We closed a couple of deals this morning. I’m healthy and I’m with you, Federico. What else can I ask for?
[00:00:43:12 - 00:00:45:05] Federico Ramallo You got me when you said it’s Friday, right?
[00:00:46:08 - 00:00:47:06] Poya Osgouei A hundred percent.
[00:00:49:13 - 00:01:00:25] Poya Osgouei Where I’m at, it’s been really sunny and really good. In about two hours, it’s going to start raining. After this, I’m going to go on a nice walk. I’m going to enjoy the sun. Anyway.
[00:01:00:25 - 00:01:02:56] Federico Ramallo Enjoy the sun before the rain comes.
[00:01:02:56 - 00:01:03:57] Poya Osgouei Exactly.
[00:01:04:59 - 00:01:05:11] Poya Osgouei Exactly.
[00:01:07:06 - 00:01:09:47] Federico Ramallo Great. Great. It’s great to have you here.
[00:01:12:50 - 00:01:21:46] Federico Ramallo We’ve been doing this podcast for a while. I’ve been learning a lot from you, your podcast, your uncharted podcast.
[00:01:23:33 - 00:01:24:44] Federico Ramallo Tell me a little bit about that.
[00:01:26:22 - 00:01:34:50] Poya Osgouei Yeah. The uncharted podcast, I’ve been doing it for four years. Last month was our four-year anniversary. We’ve done a little over 200 episodes.
[00:01:36:15 - 00:01:40:13] Poya Osgouei I’ve always focused on quality. I’ve always just been really curious.
[00:01:41:13 - 00:01:53:11] Poya Osgouei I’ve had a really dynamic childhood. I’ve lived in a lot of different places. I just know that’s influenced a lot of who I am today. We forget sometimes with buyers, with colleagues,
[00:01:55:08 - 00:02:38:48] Poya Osgouei when you peel back the onion, they’ve had experiences growing up that have shaped them and had a result on who they are. So the point I’m trying to make is over the years, I’ve met so many great founders, executives, business people that I’m like, I’d love to just scratch the surface and get them on the podcast to learn a little more about them. And it’s just become a really authentic way, at least for me, to build a relationship and have an asset to tell the story of some amazing people and frankly, learn in the process. So if there’s something I don’t know, it’s become a really good way rather than paying someone for consulting and be like, “Hey, come on the podcast so we can talk about this.” And I learn indirectly as well.
[00:02:38:48 - 00:02:41:45] Federico Ramallo Right. You learn and you also share the knowledge.
[00:02:43:47 - 00:02:44:36] Federico Ramallo It’s also fun, right?
[00:02:44:36 - 00:02:52:55] Poya Osgouei It’s also fun. And again, you get to learn from other people’s experiences. So if I can accelerate my learning, why not?
[00:02:52:55 - 00:03:04:36] Federico Ramallo So I wanted to ask you about your, what drove you to choose political science and business administration at Chapman University and how that shaped your career?
[00:03:06:20 - 00:03:23:21] Poya Osgouei Yeah. So we’re going back. We’re going back all the way. So look, growing up, so I’m originally Iranian, okay? And we’ve lived in a few different places, but I would say like my hometown, where I consider like my pivotal moments as a child
[00:03:24:28 - 00:06:10:08] Poya Osgouei in a place called Test in California, it’s in Orange County, and it’s in Southern California. And I was just so lucky. Like we were not like the richest family, but I was lucky in that I was able to grow up in like a very safe neighborhood. Like my core group of friends to this day were still connected with, which my wife and someone like my friends in the Bay Area are like, “Are you crazy?” Like I’ve seen, I’ve been able to like grow with like my childhood friends, right? We’ve gone through college together, I’ve stayed in touch, everyone’s getting married. A lot of them are having kids now. So it’s just been a blessing, right, to have that. But to answer your question, I in high school became really competitive. I was actually a horrible student, horrible person in middle school, but I was very fortunate to have one or two teachers like really tell me to like, “Hey, step it the fricking up, you have so much potential.” And in my sophomore year of high school, it just turned around completely. So I became really competitive and I always wanted to go to UCLA, always. Like that was my dream school. And I still remember it’s one of those moments where I look back and we were at a lacrosse game and in the US in March, everyone usually, March or April, around this time actually, everyone gets their like acceptance letters or rejection letters. And I remember the day to this day, it was like a lacrosse game. We’re seniors, we were like watching and supporting some of our friends. And everyone had gotten their acceptance or rejection letters like a couple of hours earlier. And everybody got rejected and we were laughing about it except one person. And he was one of my best friends, his name is Mitch. And I absolutely adore him. But at that moment when you’re 15, 16, you’re like, “Oh my God, why you? Why not me?” So I look back at that moment and I’ll explain and bring this back forward. And I was so angry to be honest for like for a little while. And then I ended up going to Chapman and I’ll explain why I picked Chapman. But the reason I’m bringing this all up is now that I look back, I’m so grateful. Not that I don’t wanna go to UCLA. I think there’s amazing people that have gone to UCLA and have done amazing things. For me at that time, it really worked out that I went to Chapman because I’ve met some amazing folks. I was able to get a really good scholarship which meant I graduated debt free which is huge in itself, right? Not being in debt at a college. But looking back, like it was just a redirection, right? And you can’t really see those things at the moment. You’re really pissed off. But I’ve learned to like just trust my gut, my faith and just keep pushing, right? Have the courage to keep freaking pushing because sometimes it’s just a redirection.
[00:06:12:24 - 00:06:15:15] Federico Ramallo Why were you angry for the sheer redirection?
[00:06:16:49 - 00:07:37:21] Poya Osgouei No, so Orange County for anyone that’s like grew up, there’s is a very affluent neighborhood, right? Like most, there’s a lot of diversity, but a lot of the folks I worked with, like their parents really supported them, right? So my background is I’m Iranian, my parents escaped. They came here, they immigrated to the state. My parents don’t really speak English. They never like unfortunately like meshed well with the American culture. They loved us, they supported us, they gave us, but I was always like all, my siblings and I were always the ones that like, we just had to figure out it on our own, right? So in the summers as like my friends went on these like amazing vacations and whatnot, like I was literally working 40 hours a week, right? Every week I was working at Office Max like selling printers, ink, different things. But like I was always like, you know, why can’t I be as fortunate as some of my friends in my group and go to Hawaii, go on some of these like trips to Mexico and whatnot. So it was some of my insecurities, right? So like the reason I was angry is like, well, why does it have to be that person and not me, right? What did I not do that they did, right? So, but again, looking back, like I’m stoked as hell for my friends. Like when they succeed now, I’m literally their biggest cheerleaders. I’ve learned like to empower them.
[00:07:38:54 - 00:08:07:35] Poya Osgouei People that have done a lot for me, my career, my colleagues, you’ll be surprised how often I pay it forward. I was just thinking about this, reflecting this over the last couple of days. In the last three months, I’ve helped 12 past colleagues get a job, right? So now like it’s a completely different story, right? But back then again, you’re a child, you’re jealous, you have your insecurities, but fortunately for the most part, I’ve been able to overcome some of that.
[00:08:07:35 - 00:08:13:27] Federico Ramallo Right, right. I had those childhood friendships that are competitive.
[00:08:13:27 - 00:08:14:44] Poya Osgouei Yeah, exactly.
[00:08:14:44 - 00:08:18:25] Federico Ramallo We love each other, but we’re competitive, super competitive.
[00:08:19:28 - 00:08:26:52] Federico Ramallo And it is a good thing until it isn’t, right? There is a threshold where it is not healthy anymore.
[00:08:28:27 - 00:09:47:40] Poya Osgouei And it’s envy, right? Like it’s very common, it’s a sin, right? You get jealous of the other person and it’s so easy. This is like, if there’s one thing I’ve learned over the last couple of years is we’re so good as humans of showing like the perfect moments, the reels, and it affects you, right? Like we have these giant tech social media companies that like are incentivized to keep you addicted to your phone. And frankly, like last year, November, December, I was so depressed. Like when I’m on Instagram, I don’t care. When I’m on Facebook, I don’t care. Like go have fun, you know, all out, go have fun. But for some reason, LinkedIn lately has really made me like bring back some of those scar tissues because you see people’s career, they’re like, oh, I’m killing it, I’m doing this. And I’m like, dude, I’m really struggling. Like I’m having a really hard time. Like what are you doing that I’m not doing? So what I’m trying to say is like, it’s a work in progress, right? Like there’s some days I’m like, ugh, like this other person’s success is like bringing me down. So the thing I’ve learned actually, which has been awesome, I added this LinkedIn blocker, which blocks my feed. So I still use LinkedIn, but I literally only use it to see my network, connect with people, message with people, like I don’t see the feed anymore, which is literally my happiness over the last three months has shot through the roof.
[00:09:49:03 - 00:09:51:06] Federico Ramallo Right, I haven’t thought about that. Yeah.
[00:09:51:06 - 00:09:52:23] Poya Osgouei I’m telling you, a huge difference.
[00:09:53:36 - 00:10:02:09] Federico Ramallo The, I think that the competition is good. Because it shows you where you can go. You know, like, you know,
[00:10:03:26 - 00:10:17:34] Federico Ramallo if somebody achieved whatever, whatever it is, right? Then, you know, you can get there, right? But then I believe that the competition, it becomes within yourself, right? It’s, you know, where are you and, you know,
[00:10:19:57 - 00:10:23:04] Federico Ramallo where can you be, right? And pushing yourself to get there, right?
[00:10:24:06 - 00:10:25:32] Poya Osgouei Yeah, 100%, 100%.
[00:10:26:55 - 00:10:32:28] Federico Ramallo Because that gives you resilience, you know, if you fail, you know, it’s you and the world, right?
[00:10:33:53 - 00:10:50:31] Federico Ramallo It doesn’t matter, you know, you can keep pushing it, right? But it’s you, you know, and your insecurities to the world, then, you know, every single mishap becomes, you know– Something else. Yeah, yeah, it can get you depressed, as you mentioned, right?
[00:10:50:31 - 00:10:52:07] Poya Osgouei 100%, it’s,
[00:10:53:14 - 00:10:55:25] Poya Osgouei and even for me, like, between us, like,
[00:10:56:30 - 00:11:44:10] Poya Osgouei I’ve learned not to add to it, right? Because what ends up happening is, like, I’ve been very fortunate, I work hard, but I’ve also been lucky, I’ve been very blessed, but I go on these trips sometimes, and I used to, like, literally, like, highlight every little thing I do on these trips, like every second, every photo. But then I thought about it, like, there’s so many people that don’t have this privilege and this opportunity that I do, so why, like, why? Like, what’s the point? Why am I showing off to people, right? So now what I do is I still take those pictures, I do those things, but I only share with my dog. We have an Instagram account, and the best part about having a dog, whether you’re rich or not, they love you anyway, so, you know, I still get to share, I still get the feeling of sharing it, but I’m only sharing it with my dog’s Instagram account.
[00:11:44:10 - 00:11:47:00] Federico Ramallo It’s unconditional love, yeah.
[00:11:47:00 - 00:12:00:09] Poya Osgouei It’s unconditional love. I’m telling you, that’s the, like, I have a little tripod, and I’ll show everybody, she’s sitting on the bed, it’s a little messy. But the one thing I’ve learned about, honestly, having a pet, and my pet specifically,
[00:12:01:26 - 00:12:47:12] Poya Osgouei and this may be Federico, why you and I get along, we rescued her from Mexico. She was two really bad car accidents, so she doesn’t have a front arm, so she’s a tripod. And any time I have, honestly, an upsetting moment, I cannot tell you how often this frickin’ dog, I’m working, I’m like, I lost a deal, I did this, I did this, like, something happens, and she just comes and, like, just puts her frickin’ head on my paw, like, she just knows, right? She’s just there as a loyal, and I’m like, okay, maybe it’s time that she wants to go on a walk, and we go on a walk, and she’s sprinting, and she doesn’t have a front arm, and I’m like, if she can overcome that, I can overcome anything, right? So it’s been an absolute blessing to have a pet as well, for anybody, at least listening, anyway.
[00:12:48:35 - 00:12:58:08] Federico Ramallo Yeah, I agree. I mean, I think that the difference between humans and dogs is that we don’t live the moment, right? They have such a short lifespan.
[00:12:59:39 - 00:13:11:36] Federico Ramallo You live for a day or whatever to go to the office, and you come back at the evening, and then for a dog that’s a week, right? Yeah. So they live every single moment like it’s the last one, right?
[00:13:11:36 - 00:13:31:13] Poya Osgouei 100%. But the thing I’ve learned is just the sheer loyalty that you can have, right? So for anyone that knows, it’s my biggest strength, it’s also my biggest weakness. I am incredibly loyal to a fall, right? I’ve worked with the same group of people for probably 10 plus years now, right?
[00:13:33:13 - 00:13:41:55] Poya Osgouei And there’s benefits of that, there’s sads, but the one thing I’ve learned is when dogs, that unconditional love, I think, goes so far with humans as well. So anyway.
[00:13:41:55 - 00:13:50:29] Federico Ramallo Yeah, and they are always there when we’re feeling down the press, you know, bleeding. 100%. You know, yeah. And they feel it.
[00:13:50:29 - 00:15:02:19] Poya Osgouei And they feel it. And that’s it. You gotta be that for your colleagues, your coworkers. Like it’s so easy right now, especially in our world, right? Of tech, like you hear about layoffs, this and that. I’m not trying to downsize it. I wanna be empathetic, I wanna be sympathetic, but I wanna be the person that empowers people, right? I wanna be the person, like I talked about this earlier, the 12 people I helped earlier this month and on a consistent basis that are looking for work here and there, they’re getting rejection after rejection, right? Which means they’re probably feeling down, their self confidence is not there. I cannot tell you how often I’ve told someone, snap the fuck out of it. You are talented, you’re amazing, and you have to remind them of like the successes they’ve had. And frankly, I’ve learned that from having a dog, right? Like sometimes they just come and remind you and love you no matter what good or bad you’ve done because they don’t care, right? And if anyone’s listening to this, like that’s the one thing I want anyone to get out of it. Like in this world of like shit and bad news and everyone like having a war and bringing and tearing each other down, be the person that brings some light and some joy and some empowerment to everybody else.
[00:15:04:03 - 00:15:12:40] Federico Ramallo I read a story about a guy, I don’t remember his name, so I apologize, but he started an Only Funds account, right?
[00:15:12:40 - 00:15:14:32] (Laughing)
[00:15:14:32 - 00:15:17:01] Poya Osgouei I didn’t know where this was going, but
[00:15:17:01 - 00:15:18:14] (Laughing)
[00:15:18:14 - 00:15:20:09] Poya Osgouei he made it to Only Funds account.
[00:15:20:09 - 00:15:22:19] Federico Ramallo I leave it with that, you know, it’s…
[00:15:24:45 - 00:15:24:47] (Laughing)
[00:15:24:47 - 00:15:30:13] Federico Ramallo So what he did is he started like encouraging young women,
[00:15:32:01 - 00:15:33:36] Federico Ramallo saying, you can make it,
[00:15:36:49 - 00:15:38:49] Federico Ramallo you’re beautiful, strong, powerful,
[00:15:40:34 - 00:15:45:39] Federico Ramallo I’m paraphrasing, but all of his videos were about that, right?
[00:15:46:43 - 00:16:08:22] Federico Ramallo And he started having a lot of, he started that more as a joke than a real thing, right? But then it became really quite popular, right? A lot of people start, a lot of women start following him because of that, right? And it’s what you’re talking about, right? It’s giving forward that encouragement, right?
[00:16:09:25 - 00:16:10:17] Poya Osgouei 100%, it’s,
[00:16:11:22 - 00:16:31:25] Poya Osgouei look, the one, one of my favorite books is “How to Win Friends and Influence People” by Dela Carnegie, it was written like 70 years ago, it’s an easy read, it’s literally one of my favorite books and I go back to it once a year. And one of the things I learned in that book, it’s like, I think it’s lesson number one or lesson number two is…
[00:16:34:39 - 00:16:36:06] Federico Ramallo This one, but this is Spanish, yeah.
[00:16:36:06 - 00:16:39:36] Poya Osgouei Exactly, but say it, what’s in Spanish? I’m sure you’ll have some calls.
[00:16:39:36 - 00:16:39:56] Federico Ramallo This is Spanish, yes.
[00:16:39:56 - 00:16:44:15] Poya Osgouei It’s in every language, they even have an in Persian, which I didn’t even know, but…
[00:16:44:15 - 00:16:45:03] Federico Ramallo Oh really, interesting.
[00:16:45:03 - 00:17:14:38] Poya Osgouei It’s like, I would be shocked if it’s not in every language, because it’s been so popular. But the point I’m trying to make, one of his first lessons is we all wanna be acknowledged. We all wanna be acknowledged, right? So I still to this day remember that, like if someone’s on the other end, if you’ve messed up, if you’ve, you know, dropped the ball on something, like the other person’s angry, and frankly, they just, you know, they just want to be heard, right? They just want you to know that like, hey,
[00:17:16:03 - 00:17:19:16] Poya Osgouei the other person’s acknowledging you and empowering you, so anyway.
[00:17:20:22 - 00:17:26:12] Federico Ramallo So we were talking about your school, how that shaped your career and your life.
[00:17:26:12 - 00:17:31:07] Poya Osgouei I loved going to Chapman. So Chapman was very good to me. I was there three years,
[00:17:32:11 - 00:20:37:08] Poya Osgouei and I was very involved. Like I, during the day, I actually worked for a company where I did sales, I did insight sales, like we call it the SDR, Sales Development Rule, now like back then, they just literally called it Insight Sales, and at night or in the evening or in between, like the days where they allowed me to, I would go to class. And I was still like very much involved. I was in two fraternities, like I still got the opportunity to do a college experience and had an absolute blast. But when you’re in college, you’re just like, you don’t know, you’re like, hey, I want to be a politician, this and that, like, you’re so focused on like, getting good grades and just getting your degree. It’s like, the thing I kind of look back that I wish I did more of is I wish I viewed it as a journey and not a destination, meaning the way it worked is my scholarship was only for three years. So I was trying to basically condense four years of college, which is the standard normal way down to three, right? So I was so focused of just like getting my degree that I was looking for that destination that I really wish I focused on it more as a journey and like peeled back the onion and like figured out more about myself, more about like what kind of things I want to do. And what’s funny about this is I got the degree and I went to DC. I go to Washington DC, because that’s usually where most opportunities in poli sci are in politics. I lasted a full three months. I hated it. I hated it. So if anyone’s listening to this, you’re young enough. The best way to know if you like something or not, go experience it. And right away, sometimes you know you have that gut feeling like, I don’t want anything to do with it and we can talk about why I didn’t like it. But sometimes you’re like, it could be that role or that person or that management. So like, go try. So when I was in DC, I tried three different jobs, hated every single one of them. And the reason I didn’t like it is the way the incentives work in politics, at least in DC, is the person that’s your friend or your colleague to your right has the incentive not to help you in some cases because that’s how promotions happen, right? Like it’s the upward mobility. So there was so much of this like backstabbing and misalignment that I was like, it’s just not my culture, right? I want to go somewhere where everyone works together, we solve a problem, like people are reasonable when there’s drama. So I’ve been very, very fortunate to find that now in my current role. But the lesson, it’s rather than wasting three years, four years on something and looking at a destination because society or something tells you to do it. It’s okay not to know and take a step back. And at least for me, whatever your learning style is, pick on that. I learned through experiences. So my biggest suggestion to anyone that’s listening is go do more professional real life examples, real experiences, because at least that’s the best way I learned about what you want to do for the next five, 10, 20 years.
[00:20:38:25 - 00:20:42:09] Federico Ramallo Right, and develop a vision, right? Because that way you know where you want to go, right?
[00:20:42:09 - 00:20:43:30] Poya Osgouei Yeah, 100%.
[00:20:43:30 - 00:20:46:41] Federico Ramallo And it’s okay if the vision doesn’t, you know.
[00:20:46:41 - 00:20:47:57] Poya Osgouei It can change, right?
[00:20:47:57 - 00:20:52:20] Federico Ramallo It can change, right, yeah. Because your perspective of the world changes.
[00:20:52:20 - 00:21:18:32] Poya Osgouei 100%. I did this, I did this training, I forgot where I did it. But the trainer was a Marine. And he’s like, we have this famous saying in the Marines, which is we’re gonna get to the top of the hill. I don’t care how you get there, we just have to get there, right? And the analogy he used is, and it was just one of these hills where some people could take the stairs, some people could go around.
[00:21:20:20 - 00:21:44:21] Poya Osgouei Like the fastest way to go is not take the stairs, but some people were really, really big. So they had to take the stairs, they took a little, you know, it took a little slower. Whereas if you went around, as long as you were willing to run, you would like beat everyone by like, you know, five, 10 minutes, you would like get there in half as much time. And the analogy, which is a really good one in life is,
[00:21:46:22 - 00:22:30:17] Poya Osgouei and I’m at that age where like, there’s different people going through different things. Like I got married, I have a house, but someone else may not have that experience, right? Maybe they don’t have that privilege or that opportunity. And they go, they freak out and it’s like, hey, it’s okay, like you’ll get there, maybe two years, three years later, but you’ll get there. So sometimes I’ve learned like, you’re on your own timeline, it’s okay, age is just a number, don’t put too much freaking pressure on yourself. At some point you’ll get there, right? Like, I think we’ve become very, very freaking short-sighted. Whereas the one thing I’ve learned is like, take a step back and look at things as like, in years and decades, if you have a vision and just keep pushing and be patient and put in the hard work and it’ll pay out.
[00:22:31:24 - 00:23:17:58] Federico Ramallo One of the, I don’t remember who said this, I remember things, but I don’t remember who did it. So anyway, this definition of happiness, right? So this definition of happiness is, you have a mountain, you have a top mountain, right? And then the happiness is walking towards that mountain, it’s not reaching it, it’s not planning to go there, right? Which is something that you do, or you say, oh, once I reach this goal or whatever, once I do this, then I’m going to be happy, right? And you’re miserable throughout it, right? So this concept of the happiness is going towards something that has a significant meaning to you, right?
[00:23:17:58 - 00:23:20:37] Poya Osgouei Yeah, 100%, 100%.
[00:23:23:11 - 00:23:26:45] Poya Osgouei But it’s, sometimes happiness could just, you know,
[00:23:27:45 - 00:23:32:46] Poya Osgouei my version of happiness is just having really fricking low expectations. So you’re always happy, right?
[00:23:33:53 - 00:24:09:29] Poya Osgouei So, you know, just being that like, just focusing on what you can control and whatever else happens, like screw it, you know? So anyway, like I really like the, I like the Spanish model. Like, I don’t know if you’ve ever been to Spain, like I remember one time I went there, I was so stressed, like I went during a time where I was still working in the US, so it’s like, you know, it’s like, local time was like 10 p.m., I’m like still working, these folks are like, you know, going out for dinner and all smiles, and there was no fricking stress at all. So, you know,
[00:24:10:37 - 00:24:15:48] Poya Osgouei live like the Spaniards, you know? Life will be okay, so anyway.
[00:24:15:48 - 00:24:30:18] Federico Ramallo Right, well, something similar happens in Mexico, you know? Like every time you go out to the city, you know, there’s a party in every, you know, in every block of the city, right?
[00:24:30:18 - 00:24:30:31] Poya Osgouei Yeah.
[00:24:30:31 - 00:25:12:17] Federico Ramallo And people are so friendly, you know? You know, it’s not perfect, you know? But you know, you have insecurity, you have, you know, a lot of issues, you know, but still, you know, everywhere you go, people are, you know, happy, you know, they’re very, you know, you go to small rural towns and they’re very, you know, they treat you well, you know, they feed you well, right? They make sure that you, you know, that you’re well taken care of, right? So, and they, you know, and then, you know, I’m very grateful when they do that, right? And they, you know, sometimes they live with very little, right, they don’t have much, right?
[00:25:12:17 - 00:25:13:08] Poya Osgouei Yeah.
[00:25:13:08 - 00:25:30:31] Federico Ramallo And, you know, you see people are happy, you know? Of course they have, you know, like they’re, you know, they want to do more, they want to, you know, make more money, whatever, but still they have this warmth, right, that it’s not always, you know, work, work, work, and, you know,
[00:25:32:02 - 00:25:35:25] Federico Ramallo and, you know, this, you know,
[00:25:36:29 - 00:25:37:56] Federico Ramallo whoever’s the feeder survives, right?
[00:25:37:56 - 00:25:39:08] Poya Osgouei Yeah, 100%.
[00:25:40:41 - 00:25:47:27] Poya Osgouei It’s one of the reasons I want to come visit you in Guadalajara, my friend. So it’s going to happen one of these days.
[00:25:47:27 - 00:25:49:37] Federico Ramallo It is going to be fun, yes.
[00:25:50:52 - 00:25:54:27] Poya Osgouei We’ll have a good time. You’ll show me how the locals live.
[00:25:54:27 - 00:25:56:38] Federico Ramallo Yes, yes.
[00:25:58:57 - 00:25:59:09] Federico Ramallo The,
[00:26:00:10 - 00:26:26:00] Federico Ramallo you know, you mentioned something about, you know, trying to take these, you know, these photos of all the places when you go, you know, with the family and such, you know, we went camping last week, and, you know, we try to go camping every, every weekend or so. And, you know, the best times is when, you know, when we don’t get them on camera, right?
[00:26:26:00 - 00:26:26:14] Poya Osgouei Yeah.
[00:26:26:14 - 00:26:29:15] Federico Ramallo The reason for that is because, you know, we’re doing something, you know,
[00:26:30:20 - 00:26:40:53] Federico Ramallo you know, either it’s a challenge that we have to overcome, you know, we go off-road, and, you know, and then we have to go around the boulder or whatever, right? And, you know, somebody’s about to roll over, right? So, you know,
[00:26:41:58 - 00:26:50:10] Federico Ramallo or, you know, we got stuck in the middle of the night, right? So, you know, and you’re kind of suffering because of the, you know,
[00:26:51:38 - 00:27:13:49] Federico Ramallo situation, you know, you’re trying to go through that, right? But then you remember it with love, you know, it’s like, hey, we overcome the situation, you know? Or, you know, we drop the water, right? Now we don’t have water, we have to rely on everybody else in the group to, you know, give us water, right? And that’s something that, you know, you don’t get on the camera, right?
[00:27:13:49 - 00:27:25:05] Poya Osgouei 100%. I miss the days of, you know, not having, so I got my iPhone really late, like I got my smartphone very, very late. Like, I think I was 22, so this is like 2000,
[00:27:26:36 - 00:28:02:15] Poya Osgouei this is like a few years after college, so it’s like way later than most people did. And I look back and I was like so glad, you know, like I was the kid that had a flip phone to like very, very late. And I look back with a lot of joy, like it was fun not to be addicted to your phone, which is the opposite now. Like, you know, it’s real and it’s true, and I have a really freaking hard time sometimes, you know? Not like, I’ll be there like watching a movie on a Sunday with my wife and I’m like consistently looking at my phone, like, you know, like it’s just this freaking–
[00:28:02:15 - 00:28:03:19] Federico Ramallo Yeah, we have this addiction.
[00:28:04:57 - 00:28:10:12] Federico Ramallo So we go camping to places where you don’t have any cell phone signals, right?
[00:28:10:12 - 00:28:10:46] Poya Osgouei Love that.
[00:28:10:46 - 00:28:27:35] Federico Ramallo And then everybody’s enjoying the moment, right? And then, you know, after a while we got a star link, right? So, you know, the moment that we turn on the star link, you can see the dynamic how it changes because everybody’s on their phone, you know, like uploading, checking something, you know? And–
[00:28:28:42 - 00:28:29:01] Federico Ramallo It’s,
[00:28:29:01 - 00:29:15:20] Poya Osgouei you know, we think we’re missing out on something, but like the real joy is, you know, just right in front of you. But I will tell you, the one time I was really happy is during our honeymoon, we went somewhere for two weeks and we didn’t have a big wedding, so we decided to put most of our money towards the honeymoon instead. And during that two weeks, I did not take my phone, I did not take my laptop, I was just like, I’m gonna be with my wife, so if there’s anything urgent, she would let me know, I would be there. And I gotta tell you, I just felt like a different human when I came back, I was so freaking energized, I was so pumped. And you know what, I look back, those two weeks, nothing happened, like nothing at all, like life was completely okay without me. So there’s a life lesson in there somewhere.
[00:29:17:50 - 00:29:26:35] Federico Ramallo Right, right. Yeah, we feel that we are, you know, so indispensable for the world to continue moving forward. 100%, yeah, 100%.
[00:29:27:46 - 00:29:28:41] Federico Ramallo And we’re not that–
[00:29:29:54 - 00:29:38:26] Poya Osgouei No, we’re replaceable, right? Like, let’s be real, we’re all replaceable at some point. And that’s the beauty of life, right? It puts our ego in check, so anyway.
[00:29:39:44 - 00:29:41:20] Federico Ramallo Right, right, yeah.
[00:29:42:29 - 00:29:58:13] Federico Ramallo I have some similar feeling when I go out camping and we see these huge, you know, huge things, you know, like we went to the Grand Canyon, right? And then you feel so small, you know,
[00:29:59:31 - 00:30:07:37] Federico Ramallo even though we have a lot of technology and whatnot, you know, you realize, oh, you’re such, such a, you know, you’re an aunt in the world, right?
[00:30:07:37 - 00:30:08:42] Poya Osgouei Yeah, 100%.
[00:30:10:34 - 00:30:16:56] Federico Ramallo So I wanted to ask you about your coaching and advisory roles, can you share a success story?
[00:30:19:20 - 00:30:20:47] Poya Osgouei Can I share a success story?
[00:30:23:36 - 00:30:29:15] Poya Osgouei Man, man, man, there’s too many, I’m just trying to see which one. There’s a couple I really want to, but it’s confidential.
[00:30:31:11 - 00:30:51:13] Poya Osgouei So when it goes public, I’ll come back and I’ll be like, I should have probably shared this one, but it’s not public yet. But look, the type of consulting advisory work I do is I only take on projects where I know I can help. And if I can’t help, or if someone really wants to work with me, I set very, very proper expectations.
[00:30:52:16 - 00:31:43:36] Poya Osgouei I think I’m overly reasonable. And I love what I do. Like, I really love the problems. I love the challenges, but I’ll name a couple of successes that just come to mind. One is honestly working with you guys, right? Like, I’ve been so fortunate to work with you, with Joel. And it’s just so fun that you’re like, hey, this person actually is investing in my ideas and like our collaboration and our suggestion. We’ve been working for what, eight weeks or something now? And it’s just been so fun. Like, I was telling literally my wife yesterday, I was like, we’ve been doing this work for eight weeks. And I’m like, I was like getting frustrated. I’m like, I’m not really seeing if I’m helping these guys. Am I not? And then you showed me, you’re like, I’ve been doing this, this, this, and I’m like, holy cow. Like, they’re crushing it. Like, we’re well ahead of the ballgame. So there’s like successes like that.
[00:31:44:56 - 00:32:58:14] Poya Osgouei But to give some context, there’s basically three or four categories in this changes. One category of how I allow people is I literally help put on events. And there’s two events I do, Play to Elevate where we met. And the other one is the Knowledge Graph Conference. And I specifically, at least for this year, picked those because it’s niche, it’s small. And the main thing I wanted for both of those is when I signed the deal, I said, look, I wanna help you. I want full permission to do what’s right for the client if I need to. We mess up, we gotta give them a happy hour. We gotta do things that make up. And I used to be a part of organizations where I didn’t have that. And it was so embarrassing because when you commit to someone, you wanna go above and beyond, right? You wanna make sure they have a good experience. You wanna keep working with them. So, you know what’s crazy about this? The other four or five clients about this that I have, every single one of them, every single one, inbound it to me about wanting to work with my advisory work, every single one, including you. So I guess I’ll throw the question back to you, right? Because I’m just curious and frankly, it’s an ego stroke for me in a way, but I’m just like, it’d be nice is like,
[00:32:59:20 - 00:33:07:48] Poya Osgouei why? I guess like, why did you wanna work with me? What did you enjoy in the process of us working together at Plato Elevate last year?
[00:33:09:09 - 00:33:18:07] Federico Ramallo Right, so let’s see. First, I enjoy working with you. When we did plateau, plateau levy 2023, we were sponsors.
[00:33:19:19 - 00:33:35:44] Federico Ramallo And I saw you going above and beyond. I remember we had, we did a raffle, right? That you say, “Hey guys, we have this raffle. “Do you want to participate?”
[00:33:38:08 - 00:33:44:03] Federico Ramallo So those type of things that we were not expecting it. So that was nice, right?
[00:33:46:15 - 00:33:55:29] Federico Ramallo So that was one thing, right? Like the warmth of you and then the going above and beyond,
[00:33:57:54 - 00:34:03:50] Federico Ramallo which was above what was committed, right? So that was nice, right?
[00:34:06:47 - 00:34:21:21] Federico Ramallo So those were the two things that strike me the most, right? And then when we start talking a little bit about working together, you’re setting real expectation.
[00:34:22:44 - 00:34:36:54] Federico Ramallo That for me was something important because that I was to figure it out together, right? If it works, it works, it doesn’t, it doesn’t, right? But at least we have that conversation, right?
[00:34:39:02 - 00:34:47:35] Federico Ramallo So yeah, and then we start doing, we start following your suggestions, your proposals,
[00:34:49:16 - 00:35:15:42] Federico Ramallo and it gave us like this clarity of what we need to do next, right? And reassurance that we are on the right path, right? Which is sometimes difficult to see. There’s so much inertia on the systems that it takes a while to see the results, right? So that reassurance that we’re on the right track, that has been really, really helpful, right? Because it’s,
[00:35:17:49 - 00:35:23:17] Federico Ramallo you don’t know which effort yields more results until it does, right? Yeah, 100%.
[00:35:23:17 - 00:37:23:27] Poya Osgouei Yeah, so my big thing is, the thing I’ve learned about just consulting and advisory work, whatever you wanna call it, is I’ve gotten away from this BS of charging someone, meaning I genuinely, deep down inside, I really want when someone pays me, they in return know that I’ve done everything in my power to earn those dollars, right? And if I haven’t, I make it very clear, I don’t do any more contracts anymore, right? I have a one page agreement, but it literally says you can fire me at any time. Literally, anyone that works with me can fire me at any time, nobody knows that. And on the sponsorship front, for some small companies, like Knowledge Graph, they’re tiny, they don’t even have a budget, it’s a side hustle, side event. I’m 100% performance based, nobody does that, right? But it aligns the incentives, right? So to answer your question yesterday, I was literally with a founder that’s become a close friend, very similar to you. I care about them, I enjoy them, they’re reasonable, I’m reasonable, and we were having happy hour, we discussed about his sales challenges, go to market challenges, and right away it clicked. I’m like, dude, I know exactly how to help you, the only issue is I don’t have that much bandwidth right now, right? And he’s like, well, we’re looking to hire this person, and he’s a technical founder, and I’m like, look, I need to interview this person, just for your own frickin’ benefit. I’ve seen enough of these cycles, I’ve been a first time founding AE at like 10 different companies. Whoever you hire, I will interview them for free, I don’t even care. Then we got talking with the candidate, I’m like, this person might not be, like they could be, but I’m like, I need more, I wanna know who else is out there before we go forward with this person, I don’t have enough data points. And I made a post on LinkedIn, I’m like, hey, this person’s looking for this, good opportunity, it has its risks, but let’s chat. I’ve had about eight people reach out that I’m connecting with. Guess how much this person’s paying me for all this work
[00:37:24:27 - 00:37:24:54] Poya Osgouei that I’ve done?
[00:37:29:19 - 00:37:32:58] Federico Ramallo Well, you mentioned you didn’t charge him, right?
[00:37:32:58 - 00:39:17:36] Poya Osgouei Zero, like nothing, right? So the reason I bring that up is like, it’s like, who cares? Like, let’s just help the kid, right? Let’s just help good people bring it forward. And what ends up happening nine out of 10 times is we end up working together, short term, long term, like something along the lines, right? I know at some point I’ll get the benefit in return in a different direction. So trust me, I like money, I wanna be compensated. It motivates me to keep working with people, right? Like, I believe in that free market principle of like, let’s reward good behavior, good incentives, because otherwise, it’s gonna piss me off if I’m not getting rewarded someone else’s. But I also bring in, I also believe in this behavior of like, let’s just pay it forward and it will pay back dividends. And if someone can afford it, great. If not, like, hopefully one day when they need me, I can ask for that favor. So I’ve learned to balance wanting to frankly be transactional with like doing right with people and fortunately knock on what it’s worked out because again, I’m telling you right now for the last probably six, seven years, I’ve not had to submit for a job or a resume or any of that, it’s been like, I’ve been working with the same people, including Plato, like those two founders, I’ve worked with them. My wife jokes that I’ve had eight first days with those guys, like, I’ve literally had eight different stints with those guys. And I was looking back because I got asked recently, they’re like, someone asked me, can you send me the agreement you have with Plato? I’m like, what do you mean? The agreement, they’re like, the agreement, like you’re consulting advisory agreement. I’m like, we don’t, it was a handshake.
[00:39:19:08 - 00:39:34:15] Poya Osgouei It was literally a handshake, right? And it’s what, it’s worked for eight years. So anyway, that’s my long winded answer of you got going about success because I don’t think about it, right? It becomes natural about just some of the values I believe in.
[00:39:34:15 - 00:39:40:15] Federico Ramallo Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of attitudes, transactional attitudes in the market, right?
[00:39:41:17 - 00:39:46:09] Federico Ramallo And they look for the quid pro quo almost immediately, right?
[00:39:49:51 - 00:39:58:34] Federico Ramallo The, yeah, and the eventually the people that I ended up working with, they, you know, they don’t have that attitude, right?
[00:39:59:52 - 00:40:17:07] Poya Osgouei So– And good luck, right? Because you’re taking all the risk and they’re not. So anyway, it’s, and to be fair, by no means am I saying like, I don’t have that principle, but it’s a little different when, like, for example, you and others, right? Like the folks that have been bounded for me to work. At some point, like you also trusted me, right?
[00:40:18:15 - 00:40:46:37] Poya Osgouei So I really, like when someone buys something for me, like I want to go above and beyond for them, right? Especially the little guys, like most companies I work for are like tiny little startups, right? Like it makes a difference. Not saying the bigger companies I don’t care about, but like, frankly, if I drop the ball on Google or Microsoft, right? Yeah, I feel bad, they feel bad, but they’ll be okay, right? That’s not the case with the little guys, like, you know, there’s a little more pressure to deliver. So anyway.
[00:40:47:54 - 00:40:52:12] Federico Ramallo They have so little runway, right? One mistake and destroy the company basically.
[00:40:52:12 - 00:40:55:38] Poya Osgouei 100%, 100%. So you really have to be on top of it.
[00:40:55:38 - 00:41:00:31] Federico Ramallo Right, right. They are, you know, in this fight or flight mode, right?
[00:41:00:31 - 00:41:02:53] Poya Osgouei Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
[00:41:02:53 - 00:41:06:46] Federico Ramallo Yeah, yeah, I’ve been there, right? So yeah.
[00:41:07:59 - 00:41:11:53] Federico Ramallo We’re a little bit more stable now, but yeah, it’s– No, it’s hard. It’s been an interesting journey.
[00:41:11:53 - 00:42:19:10] Poya Osgouei But that’s like, that proves my point, right? Like, you and I talk about this all the time. You guys are amazing, right? Like, I’ve worked with you, Density Labs, the company you run, like, right? Provides a lot of value, great quality. You’ve helped your buyers get promoted multiple times. Like, it’s been pretty amazing and awesome to see. But at the end of the day, in order for you to add value at some point, right? Everyone says the same thing. So you gotta just put in the work. Like, I don’t know how else to do it, right? Like, you told me this, I was like, how did you get your first two clients? You’re like, you know, just hustle. I’m like, what the heck does that mean? You’re like, I literally, I went and applied for the job and I coded and then I told them, hey, I can hire the next person and the next person. And I love that, right? Like, and the thing I will tell you in tech right now, a lot of people are hurting. Like, 2023, 2024, it’s been hard. I don’t care who you are. It’s been harder to sell, in my opinion, the last two years, than it’s been in a long time, right? And we forget, it’s so hard for us to forget and have that mindset that like, hey, let’s just go back to the drawing board. Like, it’s time to be scrappy again. It’s time to be, you know, it’s time to be like,
[00:42:20:25 - 00:42:39:51] Poya Osgouei it’s time to be, you know, like, it’s time to come up with like new creative ways. It’s time to, you know, hustle a little more. It’s time to go back to the basics. And frankly, I think it’s awesome because the people that work hard, they put in the work, they’re patient, they take care of their customers. I promise you, they’re gonna win. And that includes you guys at Density Labs. I’m willing to bet on it.
[00:42:39:51 - 00:42:45:00] Federico Ramallo Don’t put the ego on top of it. You know, just do the hard things, right?
[00:42:45:00 - 00:42:49:23] Poya Osgouei My ego’s too big, so that’s hard to do.
[00:42:49:23 - 00:42:55:08] Federico Ramallo Well, I’ve seen people that, you know, they have this attitude saying, oh, you know, this work is beneath me, right?
[00:42:55:08 - 00:43:50:43] Poya Osgouei Oh my God. I, so I’m doing a happy hour for this freaking client. And it was me, this other person, because I love putting on events. Like, that’s my, like what I’m really good at, and you got to play to your strengths, right? Like, is I’m very good at in-person interactions. Like, that’s just where I shine. I enjoy it, it comes naturally. I love meeting people, I’d love to hear their story. So we’re putting on this freaking dinner in Austin for a group. And this very successful, let’s call it LinkedIn influencer, decided to participate with us. And we’re like inviting people. He got like two or three people to come. And he CCs me, and I don’t even work for this person. We just decided like, hey, let’s split the cost. You bring 10 people, I’ll bring 10 people. When someone says yes, they CC me saying, hey, this person will send you the invite. And if you have any details, you know, ask this person. And I’m like,
[00:43:52:28 - 00:44:35:01] Poya Osgouei bro, like we’re doing the same thing. Like, why would I be the one inviting this person to the calendar invite, like answering their 50 questions about this dinner when it’s your responsibility, right? So, and I realize what it is. It’s like, he’s amazing at giving orders, and he’s a LinkedIn influencer, and he’s been doing it for 10, 15 years. But he hasn’t like had to actually do the grunt work, right? And what ends up happening is it works for a lot of people, and I respect it. But as soon as your company doesn’t do as well in growth rates, they have a really, really, really hard time adjusting back to the fundamentals, right? So I’ve learned not to, you know, to not don’t be too far away from, you know, the hard work, the grunt. So anyway.
[00:44:36:39 - 00:44:48:33] Federico Ramallo Yeah, yeah. I’ve done, you know, I’ve done, you know, work at nights and coding at odd hours, and, you know, doing 80 hour work weeks, you know.
[00:44:49:34 - 00:44:53:19] Federico Ramallo And, you know, I’m not afraid to do work, right?
[00:44:54:56 - 00:45:01:13] Federico Ramallo And doing, you know, doing the hard things, you know, I train, you know, I don’t take shortcuts, basically, right? And the,
[00:45:02:26 - 00:45:29:36] Federico Ramallo and one of the things that has been a strong motivator for me lately is the people, right? You know, once you start having employees, you know, you start caring more about them, right? Like, so, you know, it’s, I can, you know, I can just, you know, work weekends. I don’t care as long as, you know, my team is taking care of, right? Yeah, yeah, 100%.
[00:45:29:36 - 00:45:50:30] Poya Osgouei And that’s the hard part, right? Like it’s, the hard part is like doing that consistently, putting the hardware, also that pressure, right? That you have others that are dependent on you. It gets to you. Like it’s really, like the hardest thing I will tell you about consulting advisory work for what I do is exactly that. Like I,
[00:45:52:12 - 00:46:48:27] Poya Osgouei like two, three days ago, there was some stress going on with one of the clients. And again, I’m like, I’m the sales guy for six different companies. Think about that. That’s a lot. And I still struggle with one quota. Imagine having six or seven that are dependent on you. It’s a lot of freaking pressure. And I literally woke up freaking out three days ago. I’m like, oh my God, how are we gonna hit our number? Like blah, blah, blah. And that’s a good stress. And what I’ve learned is like in those moments, fucking don’t like it’s, it’s most people, it’s flight or fight, like go in like, like a freaking horn go towards the stress and see what you can control. And three days later, we’re in a great shape. There was three deals I was counting on. All three came in, right? So the point I’m trying to make is like, sometimes that pressure, like we try hiding from it. We wanna, and trust me, I’ve learned this the hard way. When COVID hit, I used to, 100% of my income was event sponsorship. Think about that. And overnight the industry went zero.
[00:46:49:39 - 00:46:56:29] Poya Osgouei Like literally zero. It took me no joke, probably four weeks, four weeks to get back to normal.
[00:46:57:45 - 00:47:45:11] Poya Osgouei I had a hard time getting out of bed. Literally, I used to wake up, my wife used to go to work. I would not get out of bed until 11 or 11 30. So I’ve learned mental health, depression, all that is really freaking real. Like I, a lot of people say, but I’ve also learned just because things get hard and you have stress, like fuck no, don’t go into the give up mode. Like that’s a good thing, right? Push through and like, you just need momentum, right? You just need momentum. Like I, the one thing I’ve learned is that, like create momentum wherever you can. And momentum can be like, it’s a game changer. Like what I mean by that is it could be as easy as like, go on a walk, you go on a walk, then the next day you send that email. You know, like it just, those little habits do make a difference. So anyway.
[00:47:45:11 - 00:47:55:09] Federico Ramallo And yeah, the resilience, you know, like being able to go through it’s different, you know, like when you’re depressed and we have a, you know, a shitty life, right?
[00:47:55:09 - 00:47:56:19] Poya Osgouei A hundred percent.
[00:47:56:19 - 00:47:57:37] Federico Ramallo So, you know,
[00:47:58:37 - 00:48:28:13] Federico Ramallo if you start building a good life, you know, you have friends, you have a partner, you have, you know, your habits, you know, then all of that builds your resilience, you know, to go through difficult moments, right? Yes, yes. And you know, that doesn’t mean that they’re going to be less painful or, you know, but, you know, but it gives you that, as you said, momentum, right? From within and then, you know, to the business process, right?
[00:48:29:15 - 00:48:35:36] Poya Osgouei A hundred percent. So you absolutely nailed it in terms of that, to say the least.
[00:48:35:36 - 00:48:40:55] Federico Ramallo Yeah, yeah. I’m sorry to hear about that, that, how COVID, you know, affect you.
[00:48:40:55 - 00:48:44:15] Poya Osgouei No, look, it’s been four years, right?
[00:48:45:18 - 00:48:46:12] Poya Osgouei I, and I,
[00:48:47:41 - 00:49:15:11] Poya Osgouei there was a, this past week there was a very famous like thing that’s become really famous, which is the CEO of Nvidia. And he was speaking at Stanford. I don’t know if you, if you, if you followed it. And one of the things he said is, I really hope people have suffering. Like, I hope you go through hard times, right? And going back to our earlier point about high school, right, why I was angry is I was angry because
[00:49:16:20 - 00:50:20:55] Poya Osgouei I remember specifically, like, if I wanted to go to prom or if I wanted to go to like a high school dance, the only way I could pay for those things is if I had extra income and in order to have extra income, I had to work during the summers, right? And while everyone else got to go to the beach or Hawaii or, you know, do things that were more fun, I didn’t have those, let’s call it privileged opportunities. Right? So I was like angry as a result, but you know what? I look back, huge gamer, huge, huge game changer. Like it taught me about work ethic. It taught me about hard work. It taught me about waking up early. It taught me about the most important thing it honestly, frankly, taught me was sales, because I learned how to fricking sell ink during those summers and printers and everything. And I like to this day, I look back, I’m like, I got some of my fundamental trainings when I was 15, 16, 17. Right? And all of that frankly came because my parents, like as much as I love them, like they didn’t have the opportunity, you know, to support me for these like side and salinity things that I think every kid should go through. Right? So anyway.
[00:50:22:29 - 00:50:42:55] Federico Ramallo Yeah, I agree. And I think that the, you know, the being an immigrant puts you in this situation where, you know, you have to go, you know, you have to hustle through, through life, basically, right? Yeah. You know, and, you know, it, and, and those hard times, you know, make you more resilient, right? 100%.
[00:50:44:26 - 00:50:50:12] Federico Ramallo Whatever happened, you know, the resistance of whatever happens, you know, I’m going to be able to go through, right?
[00:50:50:12 - 00:50:50:48] Poya Osgouei Yeah.
[00:50:50:48 - 00:50:56:14] Federico Ramallo It’s not going to be, you know, pretty, it’s not going to be fun, but you know, I’m going to go through it, right?
[00:50:56:14 - 00:50:59:32] Poya Osgouei Yeah, you just have to push, push through it to say the least, so.
[00:50:59:32 - 00:50:59:45] Federico Ramallo Yeah.
[00:50:59:45 - 00:51:00:20] Poya Osgouei Anyway.
[00:51:00:20 - 00:51:14:24] Federico Ramallo And the, you know, I, I, I have from, you know, my, my, my family, you know, they, they, they, they were very supportive, but they, you know, they didn’t come from a, they don’t come from a, you know,
[00:51:16:45 - 00:51:29:25] Federico Ramallo with a lot of income, right? Sure. So, you know, they, they don’t have the, you know, actually, you know, they, instead of, you know, giving me money, I will be giving them money, right? So, you know.
[00:51:29:25 - 00:52:35:18] Poya Osgouei That’s, that’s the case for me. To this day, I support my parents, right? My siblings and I, literally we support their rent, we support everything, but I will tell you the one thing which is a little different is yes, we had some tough, but at some point we had a lot, right? Like in Iran, I remember like we had chauffeurs, we had drivers, like we were very, very affluent. So I actually think it’s a little more challenging when you have something and you lose it all. That’s like, that’s like, like, that is really hard. So like that, when I tell you like my parents had a hard time adjusting, it’s because my dad just, it’s, he really had a hard time going from the top of the hill to the bottom of the hill, right? And frankly, it’s, it’s, it’s really, really, really, really hard. But I remember like I looked back sometimes in my high school, middle school years, and I said, if I ever fall into that category, the only thing you got to do is just stand the fuck back, right? So like when, when you’re down, it sometimes it’s so fricking hard, it’s easier said than done, but I’m telling you, like whatever you do, you just get back up and it’s all about how quickly you can, you know, how quickly you can bounce back.
[00:52:36:26 - 00:52:43:33] Federico Ramallo And the, you know, and I think that, you know, with resilience, you can achieve anything, right? Yeah.
[00:52:44:46 - 00:53:04:16] Federico Ramallo It’s, it’s a balance between, you know, stubbornness and sensitivity, right? 100%. Because you have to be stubborn to, you know, keep pushing towards whatever it is that you’re trying to do, right? But then sensitivity to hear what, what is going on, you know, because if you’re pushing in the wrong direction, you know,
[00:53:06:00 - 00:53:10:23] Federico Ramallo you know, you better learn that quickly, right? And make adjustments as quickly as possible, right?
[00:53:10:23 - 00:53:14:20] Poya Osgouei Yeah, 100%, 100 fricking percent to say the least.
[00:53:14:20 - 00:53:26:24] Federico Ramallo I used to have some friends that they would be more, you know, a hedonist type, you know, they would leave the moment, you know, they would just, you know, don’t have any, you know,
[00:53:29:19 - 00:53:42:07] Federico Ramallo they didn’t want to grow in any meaningful way, right? They would just want to, you know, live the life, you know, complain about the work, you know, the job and work as little as possible, right? And, you know, enjoy as much as possible, right?
[00:53:43:38 - 00:53:51:13] Poya Osgouei Just not a bad way to go, but, you know, just move to a different, cheaper place where that, you know, where you have that privilege. So anyway.
[00:53:51:13 - 00:53:53:24] Federico Ramallo Yeah, but the thing is, you know,
[00:53:54:39 - 00:54:06:18] Federico Ramallo I wanted to do, I wanted to do more, right? So when I, when I started like sharing, I want to do more, you know, I want to do this, I want to do that, they would say, you know, what’s the point, you know?
[00:54:06:18 - 00:54:09:01] Poya Osgouei Yeah. What’s the, yeah, anyway.
[00:54:09:01 - 00:54:15:17] Federico Ramallo Right, so the, you know, that’s the type of things that, you know, you have to ignore to keep pushing forward. 100%.
[00:54:15:17 - 00:54:27:39] Poya Osgouei And in those environments, what I’ve learned is, go pick new environments, right? You have to, like, you have to go, like, you just have to change that mindset, right? So,
[00:54:29:09 - 00:54:37:19] Poya Osgouei like the group I’m friends with now, like, they’re a bunch of engineering leaders, and every single one of them makes 10 times more than I do, right?
[00:54:38:45 - 00:55:08:48] Poya Osgouei But they still have fun, they still work hard, right? And we have a great time every time we see each other, but I’ve learned, like, it’s important to have that. And not that I don’t, like, not that I don’t want to work with my previous friends, but I’ve learned, like, to, you know, keep it to a limit, right? Like, stay in touch, maybe we see each other here and there, but like, I don’t want them to bring me down, right? Because I do believe the network and the people that you get advice from, they make a huge difference as well, so anyway.
[00:55:08:48 - 00:55:15:27] Federico Ramallo Yeah, yeah, I agree. I mean, and that’s why they’re no longer my friends, you know, they’re more acquainted, I guess.
[00:55:16:46 - 00:55:19:00] Poya Osgouei We’ve moved on to say the least as we’ve seen.
[00:55:20:07 - 00:55:21:08] Federico Ramallo Yes, yes, yes.
[00:55:23:15 - 00:55:31:14] Federico Ramallo Right, so, you know, we’ve been going over for a while, you know, we should wrap up, so we, you know, before we wrap up, I wanted to ask you one last question.
[00:55:32:31 - 00:55:42:13] Federico Ramallo What is your advice for, you know, aspiring tech sales, you know, professionals, you know, that they want to achieve sales leadership roles,
[00:55:43:17 - 00:55:45:36] Federico Ramallo you know, what advice would you give them?
[00:55:45:36 - 00:56:28:06] Poya Osgouei When it comes to these things, I think it’s really important to give context of what’s worked for me, because it could be different, right, like, sometimes, I think giving advice, like, that’s a really good one right there, like, giving advice without context is very dangerous. Like, I never work with people unless I have context on their business, what’s going on, because what works for one client does not work for another client, right? So, my point in all this is I think you have to have good awareness, right, and like, awareness of where you want to be, what your strengths are, what your weaknesses are, and playing for those, right? And offsetting the ones that, you know, you don’t want to play for.
[00:56:29:15 - 00:58:39:13] Poya Osgouei So, I think that’s somewhat important, like, just, I know what ticks me, so like, I’ve learned the hard way, like, I can never work for a big company anymore. I used to work at Oracle, I hated it. I worked for a client that got acquired by Dolby, I hated it, like, and it’s not because of the people or anything, it’s just, it’s not, like, I’m too impatient, right, so what I mean by awareness is you really have to know what motivates you, like, I’m impatient, I love creativity, I get bored really easily, and I’ve had to learn those things, you know, the hard way. So, one of the reasons I pick this little consulting thing and I like working with different clients is, it always, like, my brain’s always engaged, right? When one problem is happening somewhere else and I have a shitty day, somewhere else I’m doing good, right, like, so it’s a really, really, really nice balance from that perspective, so what I mean by awareness is, like, you really have to, like, know what you want, and I think you can only do that by having experiences and seeing what you like, but you have to document and you have to frickin’ courage, I think, to, you know, take a leap, so I think that’s, frankly one. Two, if you’re doing any sales, it becomes so much frickin’ easier when you believe in it, it becomes, again, so much easier when you believe in it, right? So, the reason I love selling Play-Doh and Knowledge Graph and these other things is because I believe in it, right? If I didn’t believe in it, I just, I think it becomes really, really frickin’ tough, right? So, I think that’s the second thing. And then the third thing, it’s funny, we’re talking about the selling game here, one of the things I’ve learned over the years, you wanna be in the renewal game. And what I mean by that is, you wanna go above and beyond, you wanna provide such a good experience that people come to you, it becomes so much easier, right? So, I’m just very grateful I’ve had the opportunity to work with not only amazing clients, but clients that were customers that became partners or colleagues or coworkers, right? So, I think it’s a combination of those things. And then the last one is, which I think is the most important one, frankly,
[00:58:41:03 - 00:58:49:53] Poya Osgouei at least in my humble opinion, is just do the right thing for the client. I’ve learned, I wasn’t like this before,
[00:58:51:07 - 00:59:48:37] Poya Osgouei and I’ve learned the hard way, and frankly, I’ve been fortunate to have some runway, right? Where now, I do not, I’m telling you, I do not, I care about money, but I don’t care about money. Like, I used to have this mindset, I wanna be a billionaire or this, and it’s like, why? Like, what difference does it make if, frankly, if I have 10 million in the bank versus 25 versus a billion? Yes, I buy more property or whatever. But like, I’ve now become like, as long as I, you know, I’m putting food on the table, I’m enjoying it, I’m trying to optimize for happiness. And when you’re happy, I’m telling you, man, there’s something said about, like, everything else becomes so much easier. So, my point about that story is, I’ve been in roles where I was making so much money, so much money, like, the last two years, I probably made three to four more times than I’m making now, like, in terms of income. Like, it was incredible, like, really good run, great rushes, but I was miserable, I was so unhappy.
[00:59:49:59 - 00:59:58:07] Poya Osgouei And now it’s the opposite, I’m making so much less, but I’m so much happy, like, I’m so much engaged. And there’s something to say about when you’re engaged and when you’re happy,
[00:59:59:07 - 01:00:17:07] Poya Osgouei like, it’s a different ballgame. So, put yourself, if you can, in situations where, even if you make a little less money, you enjoy waking up. Like, now I’m telling you, I look forward to every Monday. Like, let’s go, like, you know, like, weekends, what are weekends? Let’s work, you know, so anyway.
[01:00:18:33 - 01:00:24:16] Poya Osgouei Those are just some, like, high level, like, things that have worked in my experience. Right.
[01:00:25:20 - 01:00:29:55] Federico Ramallo The weight, you know, becomes insignificant, right? When you’re happy.
[01:00:29:55 - 01:00:52:06] Poya Osgouei Insignificant. And I’m telling you, the biggest thing is, and I’ve learned this the hard way, people either give you energy or they take away energy from you. So, if, I can’t be around people that take energy away from me. Like, I just, I can’t stand it, I don’t like it. So, I’ve just learned, you know, trim those people, cut those people, it’s just not fun. So, anyway.
[01:00:52:06 - 01:00:56:33] Federico Ramallo Right. So, you know, now your job become a hobby that pays you.
[01:00:56:33 - 01:02:21:04] Poya Osgouei Yeah, exactly, right? What is a job? What? It’s a job, no way. So, anyway, but all that said, just to be very transparent, I’m making it sound like a romantic, it’s frickin’ hard. Like, I called, I was catching up with something, I’m like, I cannot tell you how hard it is right now to sell event sponsorships. Like, I wish I could, it’s just the market, like, at least on what I’m selling to, like, I wish it was easier, I think what I’m selling. And then you question yourself. I’m telling you, you frickin’ question yourself. I have had more fear and doubt. I told you this, like, two days ago, I wasn’t stressed, but I just couldn’t sleep. I’m like, how the hell are we gonna hit your number? I was just sitting in my bed at like three in the morning, like, how am I gonna hit my number and thinking about it? And in those circumstances, what I’ve learned is put the frickin’ whatever you have to away and just go and recharge, really energize. Like, it could be a workout, it could be a walk, it could be with the dog. And sometimes, frankly, you just gotta talk to someone, right, it could be a frickin’ parent, it could be a counselor, it could be a mentor, it could be like someone you can just go event to that can calm your frickin’ nerves, right? And one of the reasons, honestly, between us, I love in-person events is I get to vent. I tell people, I’m very vulnerable. I’m like, it’s been fuckin’ shit. It’s been really hard selling anything, right? And you know what’s nice? They tell me the same thing. I’m like, okay, I’m not alone, we’re in this together. So anyway.
[01:02:22:16 - 01:02:26:09] Federico Ramallo If it’s hard for everybody, then you know, we’re in the right direction, I guess.
[01:02:26:09 - 01:03:11:01] Poya Osgouei It’s, I will tell you, like, it’s a balance. Like, I don’t think it’s really important not to compare yourself to other people, but it is important to connect with other people just to see what they’re seeing. And if something’s working for them, like, holy cow, like, why? Like finding it out and adjusting. With all of that said, the one thing I’ve learned in terms of people I work with, founders or whatever, I love working for people that are real. I was recently just talking to a founder like two months ago. I’m like, how are you? What’s new? The dude’s just telling me like, oh my God, it’s going great, my business is growing, we’re hiring this. I just found out two weeks ago, they’re shutting down. It’s like, dude,
[01:03:12:06 - 01:03:44:42] Poya Osgouei come on. Like, it’s okay, be vulnerable. Like, you don’t need to be embarrassed. Like, so I’m a huge fan of celebrating people being vulnerable within reason, right? I love working with people that don’t be asked, they tell it like it is. And by the way, I’m not saying don’t mark it. I’m not telling you like, but if you have someone you really trust and you can, like, you know, like they’re asking you because they want to help you, you got to be real. Like tell the freaking truth of how things are going because otherwise I don’t know how I can help you, right? So anyway.
[01:03:44:42 - 01:03:50:12] Federico Ramallo Well, they own, you know, those type of people, they own the fake it till you make it kind of thing, right?
[01:03:50:12 - 01:04:39:43] Poya Osgouei Agreed. But what I’m here to tell you is it will break you. It’s too freaking hard, it’s too challenging. It’s too freaking hard. Like, I talked to this founder yesterday and I loved it. He’s like, look, I’m having a really hard time because the last time we got a new logo was back in September, right? I’m like, okay, I peel back Donnie. And I’m like, why? Like, you know, like, but I could only help him because he was honest, he was truthful. I cannot tell you how often I’ve seen the other side, whether it’s an ego play or something else, they portray things in a lens that it’s like, yeah, it’s kind of half true, but like you peel, you peel back Donnie and it’s bogus, right? And I’ve learned those are very dangerous people to work with because the ego is too high, right? The ego and the pride is way too high. So anyway.
[01:04:41:01 - 01:04:46:11] Federico Ramallo And you know, you have to walk, it’s like walking an eggshell, you know, you have to walk very carefully, yeah.
[01:04:46:11 - 01:04:47:57] Poya Osgouei 100%, so anyway.
[01:04:48:59 - 01:04:54:09] Federico Ramallo And that’s when it’s no longer fun to work with those type of folks, right?
[01:04:54:09 - 01:04:55:02] Poya Osgouei 100%.
[01:04:55:02 - 01:05:02:43] Federico Ramallo Yeah, so thank you very much, Poya, for joining us on this episode. I really appreciate it.
[01:05:03:50 - 01:05:09:53] Federico Ramallo And you know, I’m looking forward to continue, you know, working together, you know, talking more.
[01:05:11:06 - 01:05:13:04] Federico Ramallo There’s a lot of things to do, yeah.
[01:05:13:04 - 01:05:21:15] Poya Osgouei Look, I’m grateful to you, right? Like you’re running with it, you’re having fun, you treat people well, you’re reasonable.
[01:05:22:34 - 01:06:01:10] Poya Osgouei When you say you’re gonna do something, you do it. So you’ve been a great partner to work with. And the funnest part about working with you, frankly, is you’re putting yourself outside of your comfort zone. Like even this podcast, like I can tell, like you’re like enjoying it, you’re having fun, but it’s pressuring you to get out of your comfort zone, right, like it’s, so, and there’s something said about that in terms of a lesson, right? Like the way we grow is just putting ourselves out of our comfort zone, and that, frankly, between us, it pumps me up. It’s like, fuck, let’s go, like I wanna put myself out of my comfort zone, right? So I, in return, appreciate you, Joel, and the rest of the Density Labs team as well.
[01:06:02:41 - 01:06:03:42] Federico Ramallo Thank you very much, Poyo.
[01:06:03:42 - 01:06:06:21] (Upbeat Music)