What we talked about
Welcome back to The PreVetted Podcast, where we spotlight extraordinary people and remarkable talent reshaping our world.
Show notes
Sam Brearey joins the PreVetted Podcast for episode 4.
Full transcript
[00:00:00:53 - 00:00:09:37] Federico Ramallo Welcome to the Irregular Expression podcast, also known as Irregax. Our primary goal is to delve deeper into the experiences and stories of our guests.
[00:00:10:47 - 00:00:39:03] Federico Ramallo As we uncover their insights we aim to understand, learn and subsequently share these invaluable lessons with our larger community. Each episode is an opportunity for both us and our listeners to gain knowledge and grow together in our collective wisdom. Through Irregular Expression we’re building a repository of wisdom, enriching the community with shared knowledge from leaders and innovators from diverse walks of life.
[00:00:41:25 - 00:00:47:21] Federico Ramallo So in this episode we have Sam Braery. Hello Sam, nice to have you here. How are you doing?
[00:00:47:21 - 00:00:51:11] Sam Brearey Yeah, very good thanks. Pleasure to be here.
[00:00:53:25 - 00:00:53:37] Federico Ramallo Great.
[00:00:54:59 - 00:00:57:36] Federico Ramallo So tell us a little bit about yourself.
[00:00:58:37 - 00:01:33:00] Sam Brearey Yeah, so I’m a former international sailor. My background is in the LEAF sport. I was a professional sailor on and off for around 10 years, won three world titles, three European titles and a whole string of national titles for Great Britain. And I’m now CEO and co-founder of ExcessiCise, which I’m sure we’ll talk about today, which is the first ever disability fitness app in the world. And I’m also still on the board of directors for a disaster relief charity that operates heavily in Ukraine called Project Phoenix.
[00:01:34:20 - 00:01:43:22] Federico Ramallo So tell us a little bit about ExcessiCise. We talked a little bit before and I learned a little bit, but you know, tell us about our audience.
[00:01:44:47 - 00:01:53:45] Sam Brearey Yeah, so ExcessiCise is a world’s first. It was founded by myself and Ali Jawad, who’s a Paralympian and a third co-founder of Step Away From the Business.
[00:01:54:51 - 00:03:07:52] Sam Brearey And we really identified that there’s this massive gap between able-bodied individuals and the disabled community. I think that gap became really evident during the COVID pandemic, when everyone was locked down, you weren’t allowed to leave your house, and people turned very quickly to YouTube, to like Joe Wicks, to find out how to exercise, how to be more fierce and healthy. And the disabled community really struggled to access that resource. So if you go onto YouTube and you search for a one-legged press-up or a one-arm shoulder press, you will either receive able-bodied videos, which aren’t fit for purpose, they’re not safe, they’re not scientifically validated, they’re not right for you. Or you’ll see only a handful of videos specifically for you as a disabled individual or someone with an impairment. So we really wanted to help get over that barrier to exercise, because we believe that everyone should be able to exercise and live healthy, more engaged lives. So we really wanted to create a platform which offered bespoke specialist content that was based on scientific research to help the disabled community be more active. And that was success-size.
[00:03:07:52 - 00:03:10:35] Federico Ramallo What funding stage are you right now?
[00:03:12:10 - 00:03:43:38] Sam Brearey So we bootstrapped it very early on, because it’s important to us that our own money go into this, we believe in it as a project, we want to be involved, we want to show action, not just words. So we bootstrapped the first part of the funding, we then went through a very small external funding round where Cerebral Palsy Alliance came on as an external funder, and we’re now in our first big external funding round. So it’s kind of a hybrid pre-seed to seed round, raising a million pounds British, so about 1.4 US.
[00:03:44:42 - 00:03:55:15] Sam Brearey And it’s going really well, we’ve got about 700 care of it committed, around two thirds of it committed, and we’re sort of in the stages with investors now just trying to close out that last few hundred thousand.
[00:03:57:03 - 00:04:04:23] Federico Ramallo Right, right. So we’re going to share the links to reach out if somebody in the audience wants to invest,
[00:04:05:26 - 00:04:21:10] Federico Ramallo we’ll put it there. How did you validate the concept? You know, like people talk a lot about the MVPs and you know, how do they validate their concept? And you know, how was your journey for that?
[00:04:22:44 - 00:05:03:11] Sam Brearey Yeah, so it was kind of easy and difficult all in one, as I’m sure most startups are. It was easy from a perspective where it’s very hard to argue against the principle, right? You know, we all understand that healthy living is important, we understand that physical activity is important, and we understand that mental well-being is important. So be able to provide that to a specific community, in this case, the disabled community is easy to justify and makes a lot of sense. The harder aspect to validate was that because nobody else in the world has ever done what we’re doing, there’s no blueprint, you know, there’s nothing out there that we can say, oh, yeah, it’s just a better version of this.
[00:05:04:23 - 00:06:26:42] Sam Brearey Because we are this, we are the first one. So to get around that, we did a few different things. We did a lot of market research very early on. And we did a combination of pulling in external market research from sort of third-party providers and partners, charity sector, that kind of thing, some government reports, World Health Organization. And then we also did a whole load of our own internal research as a company, reaching out to specific groups and people, creating a focus group and getting a kind of survey of responses and ideas from the wider disabled community. And that enabled us to shape our initial product and our MVP. And then when we released our MVP to the market, we started working with more educational type establishments, a lot of universities and research organizations to try and give more of a concrete validation to what we’re doing. And the most important one of those for us was the partnership with Loughborough University, which is a very well-renowned university for sport and exercise. And they created a project to independently see if we did what we said we did. And they managed to validate us from the scientific perspective that we permanently and positively change behavior in the disabled community, which is cool. We can now say we’re scientifically proven to do what we said we do.
[00:06:26:42 - 00:06:35:31] Federico Ramallo Right. It’s not only about, you know, providing content, but also being able to provide curated and valid scientifically validated content. Right.
[00:06:36:38 - 00:07:09:41] Sam Brearey Yeah, sure. It’s super important to us that the disabled community are both provided the resource they need, but also educate on how to use it. And our belief is that that can only happen if it comes from a foundation of science and justification, you know, so we don’t believe in making up an exercise and telling somebody it’s good for them. We want to scientifically prove it’s good for them and that it’s safe for them to do. And then we’ll add it into the app. So we don’t want people to injure themselves. We don’t want people to waste their time or have a bad experience.
[00:07:09:41 - 00:07:23:26] Federico Ramallo Tell me a little bit how you’re sailing experience and how you connect your sailing experience, you know, with how that helps for you to become a leader and a CEO in your company.
[00:07:26:14 - 00:07:33:29] Sam Brearey Yes, it’s a good question. I think coming from an elite and elite sporting background
[00:07:34:44 - 00:08:06:53] Sam Brearey has a lot of benefits for sure in the startup world and in the leadership role. We are, by default, trained to be good at decision making, to be calm under pressure, to be logical versus emotional in our decision making, to create timelines, deadlines, stick to them. We’re very good at holding ourselves accountable, you know, because we learned all of that in the gym and in training sessions and working with a diverse group of specialists and coaches and other athletes and support staff.
[00:08:08:01 - 00:08:21:33] Sam Brearey You have to learn to work with a lot of different people. You have to learn to do what you say you’re going to do. You have to learn how to plan properly, how to time manage. And so all of that sort of stuff really, really helps for sure. But I think the biggest single thing that
[00:08:22:51 - 00:09:21:26] Sam Brearey I think elite athlete life taught me that is beneficial to the startup world is that ability to be super resilient, to change, but also to failure. So failure is such a positive thing in this world. Everyone looks at it so negatively, but, you know, we grew up in an environment where to fail was to learn. And you don’t go to the Olympic Games or become a world champion without learning. So we openly wanted to fail. We wanted to not be good enough at something and identify that and work on it. So I think that being open and accepting of that failure and using it as a positive thing to learn and develop rather than to keep knocking you down is really important. And that resilience is also important in the startup world, especially when you’re going down these funding paths, you know, you’re constantly getting money put in front of you and taken away and people slamming doors in your faces and, you know, just going over and over again is a key to it. And it’s the same in elite sport.
[00:09:22:34 - 00:09:38:14] Federico Ramallo Right. Right. The, you know, the decisions that you make can, you know, can become, you know, life or death, you know, can become life for the situation. Right. So, you know, and the same thing happens in the company. Right.
[00:09:38:14 - 00:09:38:28] Sam Brearey So
[00:09:40:32 - 00:09:43:18] Sam Brearey yeah, for sure. You know, we don’t always get decisions.
[00:09:43:18 - 00:10:01:23] Federico Ramallo Right. And, you know, another way to see experience, right. People talk about experiences all, you know, the accumulate, all the accumulated failures that you had. Right. That’s basically the experience. Right. Because that, you know, that allows you to save, you know,
[00:10:02:51 - 00:10:05:16] Federico Ramallo to avoid a problem in the future. Right.
[00:10:06:49 - 00:11:01:45] Sam Brearey Yeah, for sure. You know, and I think the way I always try to explain it is imagine a child that’s going from crawling to walking. They don’t crawl along, try and stand up one day, fall over and go, you know, I was going to crawl for the rest of my life. You know, like that falling down and getting back up and trying again and again and again. That’s embedded in us as human beings from a tiny, tiny age. Be it, you know, learning to breathe properly or sleep properly or eat and grow and walk and crawl and sit and stand and all those things. They don’t happen instantly overnight. And essentially, you don’t develop a billion dollar company overnight. You don’t develop a billion dollar company without getting things wrong. You know, you don’t you don’t do all these things without learning and failing along the process. And, you know, there’s been so many great quotes from business and sport and they always say the same thing, you know, which is the more you fail, the more likely you are to succeed, essentially. That’s a key part of startup life.
[00:11:01:45 - 00:11:14:25] Federico Ramallo You mentioned something about Project Phoenix, right? That’s something I didn’t know about you until now. Can you tell us a little bit more about what Project Phoenix is about?
[00:11:15:31 - 00:11:28:12] Sam Brearey Sure. Yeah, I always like to be full of surprises. So, and Project Phoenix is a global it’s a global disaster relief organization. We’re focused heavily in Ukraine at the moment for obvious reasons.
[00:11:29:15 - 00:12:01:03] Sam Brearey It was founded by former military personnel in Great Britain, military veterans. And about three months after war, they invited me on to the board for some of the work I was doing already inside Ukraine and some other areas of expertise. And it’s a three phase organization. So, the first part of our support to Ukraine was immediate lead. So, it was the first three to four months of the conflict. We were running in various military supplies, protective equipment, medical supplies,
[00:12:02:09 - 00:12:48:49] Sam Brearey vehicles, all those kind of things helping with movement in the country, various logistics chains, ambulances in all that kind of stuff for that immediate front line support and need. And then the second phase is more of a longer-term phase kind of five months onwards. So, like five to 12 months, which is more around the sustained and continued support. So, we switched into more of a training, advising, and partnership role where we trained front line combat medics, some operatives to do special missions in and around the front lines, as well as training in anti-tank weaponry and all the key skills that were going to be needed over a longer period of time in the conflict.
[00:12:50:01 - 00:13:05:26] Sam Brearey And now, as that gets more sustainable and it’s more so under control in country, we switch our attention more to a developmental role. So, we’re looking at how to best support the rebuild of Ukraine, rebuilding orphanages, schools, education centers,
[00:13:06:29 - 00:13:34:55] Sam Brearey rehabilitation centers for the injured veterans, working out how we can best support their physical and mental well-being, as well as some of the connections and links between governments and military organizations and stuff across Europe and the wider globe. So, it kind of ties in nicely to the accessorised stuff where we do a lot of veteran support, to working with various Ukrainian veteran organizations to better support the rehabilitation of soldiers and civilians that get injured during the conflict.
[00:13:36:12 - 00:13:51:13] Sam Brearey And that kind of ties in with the accessorised mission of disability inclusion and exercise for the disabled community. So, it’s kind of tackling all of the problems on as many fronts as we can to try and give us the widest amount of support to the country and people as possible.
[00:13:51:13 - 00:13:55:47] Federico Ramallo I see how both of these projects, they connect, right?
[00:13:56:59 - 00:14:01:29] Sam Brearey For sure, yeah. I very much believe that doors open doors.
[00:14:04:32 - 00:14:06:22] Federico Ramallo That is very fascinating. So,
[00:14:07:33 - 00:14:15:43] Federico Ramallo what are your goals for the next 12 months? Sorry, what are you planning to achieve? You mentioned about raising funds.
[00:14:16:43 - 00:14:18:40] Federico Ramallo What are the things that you want to achieve?
[00:14:20:11 - 00:15:29:04] Sam Brearey Yes, I think the biggest thing for us is to close our funding round because that then enables us to do all the wider things we want to do as a company. So, this funding round will allow us to expand our feature offerings. So, at the moment, we have three core features, our exercise library, which is very unique and bespoke. We have a social hub for peer-to-peer support and engagement. And we have a explore section where we map out every fitness facility in the country and they’re rated by accessibility. And so, we’re going to add into those three gamification elements to help retention, help user experience, the fun side of it. We’re going to add in some nutritional content bespoke to different impairments, as well as an education hub for person trainers, physiotherapists, that kind of things to better integrate with the community. We’re then going to expand into America, Brazil, Australia and Canada, which is going to four key markets for us. We’re going to expand our offering in Ukraine. We’re going to do more with the Ukrainian veterans. We’re going to hire a few key employees into the company to help drive that rapid growth.
[00:15:30:04 - 00:15:42:17] Sam Brearey And we’re also going to add new content. We’re going to add probably three or four new impairments. So, we’ve got six or seven in app at the moment. And we’re going to add another three or four over the next six months, 12 months.
[00:15:43:23 - 00:16:28:25] Sam Brearey And that will really sort of flesh out the totality of accesses. And then from a Phoenix perspective, we’re just doing more of the same. So, we’re constantly fundraising for special projects. So, at the moment, we’re raising for some drones for an elite military unit. We’re raising for some rapid response watercraft for a special unit in Ukraine. And then we’re also working to support the rehabilitation centres in Ukraine as well. So, we’ll do more of that front. And as the war hopefully starts to come to a close, hopefully next year, we’ll increase our activity in terms of the rebuild side of the country once we can get more resource in there. And it’s a bit safer in terms of air cover and those sorts of things.
[00:16:28:25 - 00:16:39:48] Federico Ramallo So, you’re talking about adding to accessor size social component features and gamification, right?
[00:16:41:44 - 00:16:44:34] Federico Ramallo And then with the global expansion, you would need,
[00:16:46:05 - 00:17:02:10] Federico Ramallo you probably thought about this, but the translation first interfaces, that’s something that I’ve been, I’m a software engineer. So, that, you know, every time I hear about international expansion, you know, translation comes to my mind, right?
[00:17:03:56 - 00:17:30:54] Sam Brearey Yeah, yeah. So, it’s a good point. It’s got like three different big components for us to think about. One is the basic translation to make sure that every country is catered for as accurately as possible. But that then brings in a whole load of design issues. For instance, Arabic in terms of language is much longer on a piece of paper than English, for example. Ukrainian is longer than English and those sorts of things. So, the design itself of the app is going to have to be slightly different country by country.
[00:17:32:13 - 00:17:47:51] Sam Brearey The language is going to have to be different country by country slightly. And then the other big thing is splitting all the video libraries. So, making sure that if you’re in Ukraine, you see you have a choice between Ukrainian or English videos. If you’re in Brazil, you have a choice between Portuguese or English.
[00:17:48:51 - 00:17:50:46] Sam Brearey If you’re in, you know,
[00:17:51:56 - 00:17:57:40] Sam Brearey Dubai or somewhere, it would be different again. So, having that individualized component based on geography.
[00:17:57:40 - 00:18:02:55] Federico Ramallo The text expansion with different languages, that’s a big issue.
[00:18:04:17 - 00:18:33:30] Federico Ramallo I’ve seen that happen between English and Spanish. You know, I speak both and it’s a big problem, right? I used to implement this cascading language system where, you know, you would start with, for instance, British English will be the base for all English, but then, you know, for Canada, we use British English. But then for the US, we use Canada because most of those translations can cascade, right?
[00:18:34:33 - 00:18:44:42] Federico Ramallo So, things like that, right? And then how that affects the UI, you know, instead of one line, it becomes two lines and that becomes an issue, right? It breaks the UI, basically, right?
[00:18:44:42 - 00:18:47:21] Sam Brearey Yeah, yeah, for sure. It’s a
[00:18:48:33 - 00:18:55:23] Sam Brearey challenge which luckily I’m not going to have to solve the development team. Right,
[00:18:57:40 - 00:18:57:57] Sam Brearey right.
[00:18:57:57 - 00:19:09:24] Federico Ramallo Yes, yes. The experience part is difficult to test because then you have more, you know, you have more and more, you know, languages to support, right?
[00:19:10:50 - 00:19:15:25] Federico Ramallo But it’s a good problem to have, right? Because it means you have research on all these countries, right?
[00:19:16:45 - 00:19:38:16] Sam Brearey For sure, yeah. And I think specific to us is enough English-speaking nations that have a large disability component. So, for us, our initial expansion will be the English-speaking markets and then key markets like Brazil and Ukraine. And that will give us time and experience to then flesh out how that works across other speaking languages.
[00:19:39:27 - 00:19:47:17] Federico Ramallo Are you planning to support visually impaired or, you know, blindness or low vision folks as well?
[00:19:49:07 - 00:19:58:43] Sam Brearey Yeah, so, our plan is to so we have seven impairments in the app at the moment. And our roadmap is to include 198 by the time we’re finished.
[00:19:59:45 - 00:20:10:48] Sam Brearey So, at the moment, we have visually impaired or already catered for both partially and fully visually impaired. And we’ll expand and add to that as we go through the process.
[00:20:12:17 - 00:20:12:29] Federico Ramallo Interesting.
[00:20:14:50 - 00:20:25:42] Federico Ramallo And what are those, you know, you mentioned seven impairments, right? What are those, the ones that you give priority and why you chose those specific seven?
[00:20:26:59 - 00:21:21:05] Sam Brearey Yes, we chose them for a couple of different reasons. The primary one being they’re some of the largest impairments in terms of numbers of people that are affected by them. So, it allows us to reach as many people as quickly as possible. There’s a component around some of the impairments with the most amount of scientific research behind them. So, we can be very confident in all the content that we provide relative to them. And the third is a bit kind of access to various people. So, all of our presenters have the same impairment as the user. So, if you have one leg, for example, you’ll see videos demonstrated by somebody with one leg themselves. So, we had to have access to those people quickly and early on in the process.
[00:21:22:33 - 00:21:38:19] Sam Brearey So, those impairments we have in app at the moment are single arm, amputee, single leg amputee, tetraplegia, paraplegia, visually impaired, partial, visually impaired, full, and dwarfism.
[00:21:39:58 - 00:21:47:28] Federico Ramallo I haven’t thought about having a host that actually has the same impairment would be a significant factor in it.
[00:21:47:28 - 00:21:53:02] Sam Brearey Yeah, for sure. It’s the first time that’s ever been done, which is another cool thing.
[00:21:55:06 - 00:21:56:01] Federico Ramallo Right.
[00:21:57:33 - 00:22:12:52] Federico Ramallo The benefit of that is that you have 100% of the market for yourself. But again, without a proven track record, then it becomes a challenge to prove the traction of the concept.
[00:22:12:52 - 00:22:25:41] Sam Brearey Yeah, for sure. So, we kind of have the good and the bad, right? We have a whole market to tap into, but we’ve also got to create that market in a weird way. It’s kind of a bizarre thing. It’s an exciting challenge.
[00:22:27:13 - 00:22:29:28] Federico Ramallo But I think you mentioned it at the beginning, right?
[00:22:30:47 - 00:22:36:13] Federico Ramallo Like, the need is pretty much there. It’s easy to see, you know.
[00:22:37:33 - 00:22:37:45] Federico Ramallo So,
[00:22:39:16 - 00:22:49:39] Federico Ramallo people can understand that that’s a need, right? Now, it’s about proving that you can actually reach that audience and that, you know, you could have traction in it, right?
[00:22:51:04 - 00:23:06:32] Sam Brearey Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think our initial traction shows it’s all there. You know, our user economics are really scalable. All the partnerships are signed. All the various organizations that are behind us are backing us. And it’s very clear to understand this is going to work and it is working.
[00:23:07:34 - 00:23:17:46] Sam Brearey It’s now a case of just, you know, closing out this funding round, and then it becomes a self-sustaining thing, you know, and will be off to the races as it were. This is an exciting time, but also the hardest time.
[00:23:20:18 - 00:23:28:51] Federico Ramallo This is an amazing project. And I’m super excited to see you guys, you know, be very successful, you know, in the near future.
[00:23:30:18 - 00:23:39:26] Federico Ramallo When are you planning to close the funding round? When are you thinking that you’re going to complete the funding round, finding the funding rights goal?
[00:23:39:26 - 00:24:10:16] Sam Brearey Yeah. I think we’re willing to stay open until mid to the end of January. So, we’ll close out some of the funding next month. And then with investors who we’re advancing discussions with, or who are particularly the right investors that we want involved in the company at this stage, and we’re sort of in progressive talks with, we’ll keep it open a little bit for them as a bit longer if needed, but we’re looking to close it by the end of January, essentially.
[00:24:12:01 - 00:24:15:33] Federico Ramallo So, hopefully we’re going to hear a lot about you guys.
[00:24:17:56 - 00:24:19:26] Sam Brearey Yeah, fingers crossed.
[00:24:21:10 - 00:24:34:47] Federico Ramallo So, I have another question that is related to, you know, what was your experience between, you know, the startup community in the US and the startup community in, you know, in Britain, right?
[00:24:36:55 - 00:24:40:01] Federico Ramallo How do you, you know, what differences do you see in those communities?
[00:24:42:16 - 00:24:50:11] Sam Brearey It’s being very different for sure. I think the US market and state of affairs is
[00:24:51:32 - 00:25:26:03] Sam Brearey generally more open and welcoming to startup life and the startup world. It’s the example I always give is kind of in the UK, if you start a company and it doesn’t quite go so well, you know, often the reaction is, oh, well, nevermind. It’s, you know, when you get a proper job now, or, you know, like, maybe just take a breath and, you know, do something else for a bit and then work it out later. Whereas the US, it tends to be a bit more like, oh, my god, that’s amazing. You failed. What’s next? What are you gonna do next kind of thing?
[00:25:27:22 - 00:25:48:09] Sam Brearey I guess that the US tends to, in my experience, tend to have more of a positive viewpoint on that sort of failure side of things and, bizarrely, almost more likely to fund you if you’ve failed before because you’ve lived through all those mistakes, right? You’re not going to do them again. They know that and they appreciate it. Whereas in the UK, it’s slightly more risk adverse in the approach.
[00:25:49:16 - 00:26:14:41] Sam Brearey That being said, yes, a generalization, not everyone’s like that, of course. But certainly the reception in America, what we’re doing, it’s unbelievable, you know, and we’re excited to get out to America, but we’re also excited to, you know, increase our reach and support in the UK as well. So we’re kind of country agnostic, I guess, in that regard with a slight sway to the American approach to start that life. It’s just very built around that, you know.
[00:26:14:41 - 00:26:31:54] Federico Ramallo Yeah, in the US, the culture for startups is very different, right? And people can actually take a sabbatical to those startups, they fail and continue their career, or they do something different, right? That’s much more common in the US, right?
[00:26:33:39 - 00:26:33:51] Federico Ramallo Yeah.
[00:26:35:59 - 00:26:44:02] Federico Ramallo Something similar happened here in Mexico, right? That they have that, you know, risk, they’re more risk adverse about startups, right?
[00:26:45:27 - 00:26:56:37] Federico Ramallo But I feel that, you know, an entrepreneur would start a company or a project, you know, in spite of the culture, like the government, you know, and all that, right?
[00:26:59:07 - 00:26:59:19] Federico Ramallo Right.
[00:27:02:01 - 00:27:08:31] Federico Ramallo Right. So yeah, and accessor size, you know, seems to be a solution that could be applied globally, right?
[00:27:10:34 - 00:27:25:53] Federico Ramallo Yeah. Then, you know, you might have specific situations on different countries, right? That you might need to take into consideration, but, you know, but those might be, you know, minor adjustments, right, throughout the road.
[00:27:27:46 - 00:28:00:10] Sam Brearey Yeah, of course, yeah. And it’s important to maintain that sort of cultural sensitivity as well, you know, like part of that promise to be the most inclusive thing possible is to understand that, you know, some of the sensitivities in different cultures, different religions at times, different languages and stuff. So yeah, we take a very open and forward-looking approach to it, and we try and be as understanding and sensitive and inclusive all these things as we possibly can while maintaining our core drive, which is to help as many of the disabled community as possible.
[00:28:01:45 - 00:28:06:51] Federico Ramallo I really appreciate Sam to have you here, and, you know, I’m looking forward to see you guys succeed.
[00:28:08:12 - 00:28:09:11] Federico Ramallo Yeah, thank you. Appreciate it.