What we talked about
Hanna Bauer is the founder of HEARTnomics Enterprises and a leadership strategist with nearly three decades of experience as a CEO, board chair, and executive director. She is a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt, Baldrige Excellence Examiner, and faculty with Maxwell Leadership.
Show notes
Hanna Bauer opens with a simple credential that frames everything else: she’s a mom of five who survived four teenagers at once, which she considers proof her leadership methods work under real pressure. The framework she built from those trenches, HEARTnomics, applies the same logic she uses at home to the boardroom: you cannot give what you don’t have, so internal alignment has to come before external results.
What we covered
- Hanna makes a sharp distinction between goal-oriented and growth-oriented cultures. Most organizations are optimizing for task completion, she says, but the ones that retain people and drive lasting performance are the ones where individuals feel they are growing, not just executing. Leaders who multiply other leaders never feel lonely at the top.
- On learning from experience, she challenges the common assumption that experience alone teaches. Her argument: “We don’t learn from experience. We rarely learn from experience. We learn from reviewed experience.” She cites the 70% burnout rate among professionals as evidence that people are accumulating experience at speed without ever pausing to extract the lessons.
- The alignment framework she uses is called CORE, Cultivate, Optimize, Reach, and Elevate. She is explicit that you cannot optimize something you haven’t first cultivated: without a strong foundation of shared values and mission, every process change becomes more expensive, more ambiguous, and more likely to generate conflict. She draws on her Six Sigma black belt background to define optimization as continuous improvement, not a one-time fix.
- On the AI challenge for leaders, Hanna argues that the rise of automation doesn’t diminish the need for leadership, it increases it. “There’s no standardized pathway in the ethical governance of AI yet,” she says, which means every organization needs leaders capable of making judgment calls in ambiguous territory. She warns that high performers are starting to experience identity crises as tools complete in minutes what used to take days.
- She works extensively with nonprofit executive directors experiencing mission drift, and with organizations navigating mergers where two distinct cultures have to integrate without destroying the “special sauce” that made the acquisition worth doing. Both situations require the same intervention: getting explicit about which values are non-negotiable and which processes need to flex.
- On the Latin American workplace dynamic she and Federico explored, Hanna noted that hierarchical organizational structures, common in both traditional US institutions and Latin American business culture, create specific barriers to upward feedback. Her coaching approach for leaders in these environments involves helping people understand not just what to say, but the right structure and moment to say it, and reframing boundaries not as restrictions but as the space within which action is possible.
About Hanna
Hanna Bauer is the founder of HEARTnomics Enterprises and a leadership strategist with decades of experience as a CEO, board chair, and executive director across nonprofit and corporate environments. She is a Lean Six Sigma Black Belt, Baldrige Excellence Examiner, and Maxwell Leadership faculty member.
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bauerhanna
- Website: https://heartnomics.com
Episode 139 of the PreVetted Podcast.
Full transcript
Federico Ramallo (00:00) Welcome back to the pre-vetted podcast where we spotlight extraordinary people and remarkable talent reshaping our world. Today we’re joined by Hannah Bauer. She’s a leadership strategist and founder of Hardnomics, a framework focused on aligning people, purpose and performance so organizations can reduce chaos, burnout and reward.
She brings decades of in the trenches leadership experience as a CEO, board leader and executive director. Plus deep systems discipline, such as Lynne Six-Sisma. She has a black belt certification and Barridge excellent examiner. She’s also a faculty of Maxwell leadership and has been trusted to develop leaders globally. Hannah, welcome to the show.
Hanna Bauer (00:56) Hello, hello, thank you for having me Federico.
Federico Ramallo (01:00) I am honored to have you here today.
Hanna Bauer (01:03) It’s my pleasure.
Federico Ramallo (01:05) So for people meeting you for the first time, can you tell us a little bit of what do you do?
Hanna Bauer (01:11) Well, among many things, first of all, I’m a mom of five. And then after that, everything is ⁓ a plus. I know, right? I always tell people, like, OK, they did a really good job with my heart because I survived four teenagers at once. But no, outside of that, my heart is to help leaders.
Federico Ramallo (01:16) haha
Hanna Bauer (01:28) and help the leaders that not only want to do the thing, but want to do the right thing and want to do it right. So what does that mean? It takes knowing your purpose. It takes knowing what you are there for in the mission, division, the alignment. So picking matches only the things that are keeping us busy, but things that are really going to help us be effective, but also doing it. What’s the right thing for us at this time? So being able to see, foresee, forecast, and look at the processes and the systems because we want to do it right. We want to serve our people well, starting with our internal
customer. I always believe you have to have, you cannot get what you don’t have, so you have to have that internal alignment so we can execute externally. So starting with building strong cultures inside so that your internal customer is your grading fan and that’s going to explode over to the outside customer where we are always looking to serve.
Federico Ramallo (02:18) Amazing, Yeah, I think what you’re doing is incredible because I used to think that the leadership role was a lonely one. And hearing you talk about this, it brings me hope that, refreshment because I’ve been through a lot of challenges, a lot of experiences, good, bad.
Hanna Bauer (02:26) Mm.
Federico Ramallo (02:39) a lot of things that helped me learn, ⁓ But being able to have a, if I had the support like you when I started, that would have been a game changer for me, right?
Hanna Bauer (02:42) Yeah.
you say that because honestly it’s true. mean, like that’s the thing about leaders is that we are uniquely positioned to make environments where we’re able to help others flourish, right? And I think that many times and even what we see today, that’s lost sight for performance. It’s lost sight because we have all this global workforces that where we’re just communicating through tasks. And the main thing is to get that task done versus doing what you just said, which is like, hey, I would have liked to have an
environment that not only we’re getting things done, which we do in a business, things that help us be profitable, but also a place where I can grow. And that is what I believe really the leaders is not just a goal oriented culture by a growth oriented culture. And that’s really what sets us apart is being that growth oriented leader. And what do do leaders do? Right? It shouldn’t be a lonely, right? I think a lot of times it does feel lonely because it’s not everybody may have the perspective, but
reality is is that leaders that multiply other leaders. So you won’t be lonely because you are multiplying. You how do know you’re a leader? Well you have people following you and you know what it’s gonna be hard. I’m not gonna sugarcoat it. you like you said if you’re getting kicked in the rears because you’re in the front. So a lot of times that’s what’s gonna be. When things go sour, when they go bad it’s gonna be you. When things go great it’s gonna be the team.
Federico Ramallo (03:58) .
Hanna Bauer (04:11) So that’s a lot of parts of that the leader does. yeah, definitely. Conflict is a part of it. Grit is a part of it. Resilience, we talk a lot about resilience in the team, but it really starts with the resilience of the leader. And you don’t build resilience without failure. So failure is a big part of what us leaders do. We fail and we learn and we fail again and we learn.
Federico Ramallo (04:39) Right, right. Yes, completely agree. I mean, that’s why I talk about my experiences as, know, even though they’re painful, I will not change them because, you know, those experiences makes me who I am today. So, you know, we do need those experiences to learn, right? I mean, I just wish sometimes, you know, if I was able to have some guidance, I would find a path sooner, right?
get to insights sooner, right? that’s, yeah.
Hanna Bauer (05:06) Yeah,
that’s a key point. And one of the things that really what your listeners should know is, you know, we all go through experiences, but really where the learning part comes in is, you know, we don’t learn only from experience. really not rarely that we learn by only experience, but we learn from reviewed experience. So even in a time when we are.
I don’t get it. I don’t understand why we went through what we did, but taking the time to reflect, to respond, to process it. It’s key so that we can learn and that’s really something that we do need to know, is learning to pause. And it’s really not something right now in our world that is respected, right? Like the whole thing is go, go, go, go, go, go, go. You barely take a breath. mean, that’s why we have an entire,
70 % of the professionals are burned out because we’re not taking the time to pause, to breathe, to look, to review. So we’re doing a lot. We’re doing a lot of things, but we’re experiencing a lot. Are we learning from that experience? And it does take time to pause.
Federico Ramallo (06:12) Right, right. that’s the kind of the core of my comment. I probably make the same mistakes multiple times because I didn’t have the insight of, know. And there are another thing that happened. It happened to me and I’ve seen happen to other people is people tell us, give us their advice, they coach us.
Hanna Bauer (06:20) Me too. I’m there with you. Let me get my leg in there too.
Federico Ramallo (06:35) you know, don’t go this route. And then we stubbornly go that route, right? Because even though, you know, we can get the feedback, we eventually learn from our own experiences, not from others, right? I mean, it would be great if we could learn from others, but there’s usually some resistance towards that, right?
Hanna Bauer (06:55) Well, there’s wisdom, right? I mean, that’s what we say. It’s better to learn in the head of others. But I think also that part, like you said, like when we constantly say, don’t do this, don’t do that, we don’t know how not to do something. So that is something that as leaders, we need to be very cognizant when we are giving that advice, that we are framing it.
in a way that we can as humans follow it because we tend to you know if you’ve seen that I say I tell my kids don’t drop that and they drop it don’t do this because we don’t know in our minds how not to do something immediately you focus that that’s why you know diets are so hard you know like straight straight from this restrained from that and that is that does become an art and I believe that’s why we build those flourishing environments it’s not
Federico Ramallo (07:24) Hahaha
Hanna Bauer (07:43) I guess we are going to talk about the things that we don’t do, that we shouldn’t do, the guardrails, right, the boundaries. But in that also, there has to come in with so much more the opportunity within those boundaries because as human beings, we don’t know how to not do something.
Federico Ramallo (07:59) Right, right. We humans are very inefficient on learning, but that’s how we learn, right? ⁓ There was this idea of we can use any model, LLM, AI tool that could help us do something, but…
Hanna Bauer (08:06) Yeah.
Yeah.
Federico Ramallo (08:17) now that we delegated to the tool and we are not doing it ourselves, we miss opportunities to learn the craftsmanship of doing it, right? Which is, you know, an interesting concept that is happening now, right?
Hanna Bauer (08:21) Hmm.
yeah.
Right. So on that, I mean, that’s a big deal because
We’ve heard it, right? We’ve heard like, hey, you’re not going to be replaced by AI. You will be replaced by those people who know how to use AI. So it’s not that the AI tool itself is going to replace you, but if you don’t know how to use it, it will become a competitive advantage for those who do learn it. The other part talked about not replacing, but amplifying, right? Amplifying what we bring as humans. And I think there’s such wisdom with what you just said right now where
Federico Ramallo (08:54) Right.
Hanna Bauer (09:03) if we’re not taking the time to learn, mean, you go back to in math, right? I mean, why do we even take the time to learn the time stable or the plus one or all that when we have calculators? So why don’t we just straight out just teach the kids calculators from the beginning? Because there is a way that we start learning. mean, even like, again, talking about the brain neurology connections, actual art of writing, the way that we learn with connecting the writing, the touch,
with the thinking and it’s something that we have to be intentional about. We can easily get caught in letting some other thing do the thing for us but that is what separates us as human beings. We are the creators and that is one of the parts that we do need. We must take our place and I call that out to the leaders. We are still the creators. We are the drivers of this tool and I know this tool looks different. I know a lot of people talk about what’s not just like before where you search
and query and do those things. It actually does analyze things and learns behavior. So there’s a different dimension to it. However, this is where we still have to honor the human. But we start by honoring ourselves. We want to learn. We need to understand. I want to amplify the great ideas I have. You know, it does help me to look at visuals like, I think it and suddenly I can see it right then and there, right? There’s something beautiful about that. At the same time,
I’m not gonna, just let something else take away that experience. What we just talked about, the experience of creativity. There’s an experience that we have as humans, creators. We love creating, we love multiplying, we love building. It’s in our DNA. And it is on us to make sure that we’re feeding that part.
Federico Ramallo (10:41) Right, right. if we use AI to augment our capacity, but also at the same time, I think it’s important that we understand the hows and the whys of what we’re doing. Then we can leverage AI tools to do the…
What I call the syntax in code, the syntax is, you miss a semicolon and the code doesn’t work. You put the semicolon on the right spot and everything works. Or you missed a quote or a double quote and it either breaks or works. That can be frustrating and can take a lot of your time as a developer because it’s a minutiae. But you need it in order to make it work.
Hanna Bauer (11:18) Mm-hmm.
Federico Ramallo (11:24) I think the same thing about using AI to augment ourselves. If we can build the strategy we understand the why’s, then the AI can help us on the lower level tasks. The time consuming tasks, but with our guidance, we are still steering the boat. Or driving the car.
Hanna Bauer (11:45) And the way, yeah, drive, we’ll
both, right, still drive the car, but that’s a challenge, right? You have to keep up-leveling, up-skilling yourself.
because understanding that it is not a replacement even of your own experiences, you can then be stuck in theory. There’s a difference between theorists versus practitioners. There’s a difference between like if you’re gonna augment, you can augment a tiny little thing, or you can make something really big too. So it is up to you as a leader, right? First leading yourself. What we’re doing is being responsible for that. And I think a lot of that also
one
of the things that us as humans we battle a lot is like that imposter syndrome or the limiting beliefs and it’s not because we don’t have potential we have we and other people see that right like hey you have amazing great potential it’s even potential that we don’t see in ourselves and i see that also as a danger where like okay where i don’t see i’m letting my limiting beliefs drive me that’s why i’m going to rely so heavily on other tools that are smarter than me that can do greater things and it’s going to
be a both a challenge and an opportunity for leaders to build up the people because those those thoughts are still gonna be there if anything they may also be augmented because they’ll see my gosh what would have taken me days to do and I really took pride in doing now it’s done like that and
It starts messing with people’s identity. It starts messing with people’s purpose. And that is something, a challenge that is coming up with leaders, with very high performing people in something that we must be not only cognizant, aware, but intentional in building up.
ourselves and building up our teams so that we can take advantage and leverage these tools that are meant to amplify and augment the greatness that we have inside.
Federico Ramallo (13:37) Right. I think that becoming a leader today in the AI world is becoming much more important because the impact we can have on our team, on the people that we were working with, now that they are augmented people, if you like, know, AI augmented people, it’s much more significant. And I think it all starts with, as you said, purpose. Right.
Hanna Bauer (14:01) It does start with purpose. It is a challenge.
And I do see that there’s new, I mean, there’s new things as we know, we don’t know what we don’t know, right? I mean, there’s a lot of things that we don’t know, even with the way that the workforce, there’s things that we are forecasting, you know, the new work in the future or how will be, or, you know, how we envision it to be. But the reality to us at today is really like the wild, wild west, what we would call here is an open field. So the question, what comes
in question a lot is the standards, right? Standardizing and the ethical use of what we have even internally. The ethical in creativity, the ethics in governance, the ethics that also come in that and that’s where us as leaders really come into place. I mean again, where are leaders needed? Where there’s conflict. So for those leaders that are feeling like, I don’t know about this, is exactly, you’re absolutely right. There’s more opportunities for leadership because
because there is no standardized pathway in the ethical part yet, the governance of it, or even the integration and implementation, even at the micro levels and in the macro levels for what we’re doing in the business world and organizations and just living.
Federico Ramallo (15:14) Right. So you say that organizations fail when systems are out of…
Hanna Bauer (15:20) Mm-hmm. Yes.
Federico Ramallo (15:23) What does alignment mean to you?
Hanna Bauer (15:26) Well, alignment is to think of it like the same thing with the car, right? When everything’s like nice and smooth and you’re not hearing all those sounds, when you have to brake, you can brake without things breaking apart. When you go fast, you can go fast without the car shaking too. You like you’ve felt when you’re out of alignment, you definitely can feel it. If anybody has ridden a bike out of alignment, you know, kind of like you start learning to drive to the right so you can go straight because your wheel is one way and your driving part is the other way. So alignment is…
is that right is when we’re in alignment that means that there is a smoothness even in the change that we have to in this change that we have to do. I mean you think about even in building like you know even there’s the screws having to build in alignment the easier that they go in so you think about that is
really what are the important parts when we talk about culture? Well, the first part is the people. So for an organization, what does that look like? Well, having the people that share the vision, the mission, that represent the culture that not only we want to have, that we have, but we want to promote, that we want to grow. So it requires people, the team that you work with. As far as the processes and systems, that goes very much along with your values. If you’re a value,
If as a business a value of integrity or value of trust. Well, you’re gonna create processes and systems that not only Represent that but encourage that part in processes and systems where there is integrity in the process where there isn’t integrates in delivery from product Conceptualizing all the way to product delivery from compensation in the way that we compensate our employees the way that you know Positions going up, you know, it’s all represented
centered, it’s all in alignment because it’s just part of who we are. And of course, purpose. You as an employee, one of the main things that we find in why, you why do people stay somewhere is because of somewhere they belong. So the belonging part is both that acceptance is also that that makes you get up in the morning, things that you know, like it’s a voice of good work that wants to be done. I see a lot of people that compromise on that, that
where at the business they may not feel like that. Even the leaders themselves are just, know, hey, I’m just putting in my time until my, you know, your retirement or put in my time until something else comes up. So it becomes both a responsibility for the leader. Again, you cannot get what you don’t have to really be excited, be that ambassador for the mission and the vision for the place you’re in. And if it’s not that case, let’s talk about it.
Let’s deal with it because we only have that one life, right? We only have this one shot and we want to have fulfillment. So alignment not only lets you do great things, be with people that share your values, live out what you have been made for, but also have that fulfillment in the work that you do. In a car?
you notice again you have to go fast sometimes and you’re have to press that pedal to the metal but it’s not gonna cost everything to break if it’s in alignment but just as easy as going fast you also have to break so it’s understanding that when you are in alignment what it allows you to do is be adaptable, be flexible allow you to be able to make those changes and really bring the team together with you which is why I 100 % believe it’s so important
Sometimes people think that, I just did that one time, or I had that one mission and vision statement, we had that one great retreat, or it’s on the wall somewhere. But a car that’s used a lot, if you look at the race cars in the middle of the race, they’re having to get a line consistently. And that’s something that happens. It’s a good thing.
to take time to be aligned. It’s a good thing to stop because you’ve been going, going, And it is those cars, it is those people that actually do take the time to align, the ones where champions are made, the ones that are making it to the end, and not only making it to the end, but making it well to the end.
Federico Ramallo (19:20) Right, right. For me, the alignment is a way to make the whole company more efficient without necessarily the people to work harder, right? Because, I mean, on one side, people that are committed want to work harder, but what is the point of working more hours if at the end of the day, the work you’re delivering creates lack, you know.
Hanna Bauer (19:30) Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Federico Ramallo (19:49) there’s lack of coordination that, you know, then that adds delays, right? What’s the point of you rushing your step if the next person is not going to for whatever reason, right? So, and I think that that causes, that’s the cause of the loss of alignment, right? When you see those things and that generates frustrations because you cannot change it. you know, being able to have those…
hard conversations and saying, well, I see this, this is an issue, this is a bottleneck, how can we improve it, how can we do it better, how can we communicate internally better. That reduces the friction points, but also improves the alignment, right? ⁓ Yeah, and with that, the fulfillment for the tasks increases.
Hanna Bauer (20:22) That was the reflection, absolutely. Yeah.
Federico Ramallo (20:32) Because now you see that what you’re doing has more impact in the organization, right? Has more impact in the clients or an outcome or whatever it is that your organization is looking for, right? And if you can tie that to the mission, as you mentioned, the mission and the vision of the company, then that fulfillment increases tenfold, right? Because now you feel what you’re doing has an impact.
Hanna Bauer (20:37) Yes.
Yeah.
has to be tied.
I mean, and that’s the part that’s what the difference with, you know, even in calling, even in the work that we do is, you know, we’re operating operating and on purpose operating in our calling it. Understanding the values of the organization. The way we talk about friction a lot of times is because of that is, you know, you feel like, hey, I’m either having to compromise something that I very much value for the sake of keeping this position or for the sake of a paycheck. And it tears at you. It completely tears at you 100%.
Federico Ramallo (21:20) Right.
Hanna Bauer (21:23) I mean like it’s kind of like asking a vegetarian to work at a meat processing plant You know it’s like it’s gonna take a toll at some point. You know what I mean? It doesn’t align with your values like I am not gonna help you know what I mean? So I mean in its simplest of its terms You know you you just there’s things that you just don’t align with I mean I don’t believe in that nor do I want to be a part of that environment
Federico Ramallo (21:25) Yeah.
Hanna Bauer (21:44) That’s why it’s very important both ways to know the mission, the vision, values, especially when you’re looking at being a leader in that organization because you’re the first ambassador of that mission. You’re the first one. mean, people don’t tend to know, unfortunately, I always go back to my leaders, what the mission is, but they know you. So as a leader, you are literally an ambassador of that mission. Everything in the business, everything in the organization, it doesn’t matter
if your government, private, public has got to be looked at through that filter of the mission. It is not something that, okay, well, we are gonna do this, but although the mission says that, then that’s out of alignment. And that’s where the work of the leader really starts is in bringing them together. Can they be brought together? If not, then we don’t need to be doing this because what tells me what to do with my mission is my mission. Those are my marching orders. So as a leader,
constantly looking at that. Should we spend money on that budget? Do we need to be working into that market? Do we need to be developing that tool? If we have a stance as a value on what we believe, what people should have or should use, that tool may not work towards getting that mission to go further. So understanding that in the mission and division, it’s like, again, for a person, their purpose. And when we’re talking about growth,
we’re talking about navigating all of these things that we don’t know. We ask people a lot of times say like that trust and that grit and you know we’re just gonna get it done because we’re gonna get it done. Well you’re pulling from that different place so that’s what we’re talking about that that goodwill that we’re also getting from our employees from our team members because we don’t know if this change is going to give what we want it to give. We don’t know. We don’t know if this new product is going to give all the things that we want so we’re having to bank a lot on
trust and it’s so much easier and better when you have people that are aligned with the mission and yourself so you can operate in that goodwill that you’re going to need to bank on to create change.
Federico Ramallo (23:47) The best way that I’ve seen the description of values is this idea of values don’t live in a wall. They usually stay on a frame or whatever on the wall. They’re to guide you through every decision you make.
the organization, right? So when you have a doubt or a hesitation about which path should I choose, you should be able to go to the values and say, okay, based on these values, and now I have clarity on which path should I take, right?
Hanna Bauer (24:05) Yeah.
correct was the next best step. Absolutely. that’s, again, it is both a challenge, a calling, and really a commitment where we need our leaders to be convicted by those values. We gotta know them.
Federico Ramallo (24:30) Right.
Hanna Bauer (24:30) I
can’t tell you how many times I have trained leaders and I ask, okay, so what are our company values? And, you know, maybe they’ll find them on the website, but they’re not there, you know, what’s the mission, the vision, and I cannot harp on it enough.
⁓ that you’re absolutely right. How do I know what next best thing? I have to look back at my values. They tell me that how we do things here and 100%. It will help you with your next step, with your next hire, with where to go is that values dictate for the culture, for an organization, how we’re doing things here.
Federico Ramallo (24:44) You
Right, and I think that’s the first step towards alignment, right?
Hanna Bauer (25:11) yeah, you have to know the values. It’s part of the foundation.
Federico Ramallo (25:13) Right.
Hanna Bauer (25:13) Yeah, so
Federico Ramallo (25:14) Right.
Hanna Bauer (25:14) for alignment, we use a method called CORE. So CORE is Cultivate, Optimize, Reach, and Elevate. And in Cultivate is where we dig in through that part, where we have to know, they cultivate not only the mission, the vision, the values, but also how are we growing in them? How are we measuring these? You know, how are we living this out in my department? You know, it has to be lived out from every person there.
So how am I adding to, how am I cultivating as a leader what is that foundational part so then I can move into optimize. I can’t optimize something if I don’t really know, should we even be optimizing this? I we can change a lot of things, we can be effective on a of things, but is this where we need to be? If we don’t have a strong cultivate part, a strong foundation, everything else becomes so much more expensive, it becomes blurry, and it becomes a ground for conflict, but optimization, especially when I mean like again, my background is as a
a black belt in Six Sigma. continuous improvement is part of what we do all the time, right? But we can start, we can do that in anything. It’s never ending, honestly, improvement. So it doesn’t mean that we have to do it all until it’s gonna get to this point of perfect. It’s not. I mean, as soon as the weather changes, it’s gonna show something else, right? Something’s gonna be changed. understanding and optimization, is that continuous improvement. So what should we optimize when?
how much do we need to be optimizing is going to be in complete alignment and related to cultivate. What are we cultivating? What are we looking at doing?
Federico Ramallo (26:48) That’s very interesting. Is that part of hardnomics? Interesting. So can you tell us a little bit more about hardnomics and what problems you tried to solve when you created?
Hanna Bauer (26:54) Yes.
Yeah.
Well, they promise misalignment.
Federico Ramallo (27:07) Right.
Hanna Bauer (27:08) That’s
one of the big things. And again, it shows in different ways, right? mean, so it’s misalignment. A lot of times I serve as the leader’s executive because it may show up as someone who’s lost a passion on something that they really love. That happens a lot with nonprofits. Nonprofits are known, know, usually it’s the passion of the founder. And now it’s become everything is task, task, task, task. So I work a lot with executive directors on that, even board of directors and being able to really be that, have that governance and that support.
that the executive directors need. So I work a bit with usually the board of directors, executive directors, and then for the C suites, it’s the same part. We’ve seen a lot of mergers lately. And with mergers, you have that differentiation in cultures, right? From the ones that may be coming over the new leadership, from the existing leadership. The very reason why the merge is happening is because they liked what that business had. So how do we keep that
you
know, that flavor is essential of that business that is now being acquired, maintain the integrity of it, and at the same time be integrated into the greater vision, mission of the one that is not acquiring it. So I get to work with those organizations as well. And not only that, but then also there’s a small business owner. So the small business owner who, for anyone who’s trying, who’s owning a small business, trying to make a change.
like trying to change a tire going 100 miles an hour in a highway you know that’s exactly what it feels like because everything has that immediate impact. The time is really literally time is money time is opportunity so I come along side down to really look at what you know what needs to be optimized you know what are some of the areas that need to be revitalized if any and really look at the elevation part because with everything there is a time right there’s time there’s
seasons and one of things that small business owners do know is the times they have that connection but again that this matching the desire of wanting to change and the ability the resources to change is where I get to help in that in that merging that alignment for that as well.
Federico Ramallo (29:10) Right, right, I never thought before about, know, merchant acquisition and the impact on culture, right? Because you’re trying to merge two organizations without losing the core quality of why that organization was acquired in the first place, right?
Hanna Bauer (29:27) right.
And there’s some parts that are going to be lost. mean, that’s that comes with merger. But it’s like, what are the vital parts, those differentiator parts, those things that make even this whole thing make it a deal? How do we learn from those? Because a lot of times is the acquiring organization that’s like, we need that. You know, we need that special sauce. We need that that special part, even that boutique feel that may be coming from that. they’re looking really at amplifying it into their
Federico Ramallo (29:31) Right.
Right.
Hanna Bauer (29:54) organization
not diluting it. So there’s opportunities there to be able to do again, but it’s a constant, right? It’s understanding. So for that, I use my method core. Both about looking at core and not only equipping your core business and leadership, the people that are in the leadership structure, but also looking at areas where you can be a thought leader.
Federico Ramallo (29:57) right.
Hanna Bauer (30:19) areas where you do need to be able to have better reach. Small boutique places have great customer service, right? But there are a lot of times the internal systems may be a bit burned out because everybody like won’t have one person wearing 10 hats. You know, they’re both the accounting, they’re both the person that takes the payment, they’re also the IT person. So you have some of these parts, you know, so how do we reach the right way and looking at the processes and the systems and
and even in that. So those are great opportunities. It’s something that I do with businesses and with workshops. We work one thing at a time. We look at the business functions and then definitely the ongoing coaching. I’m a believer in executive coaching both for the leader and the group because it’s not just about learning. mean, we all, again, an event inspires, even a workshop is great because it’s a great booster. But what really sustains that change
going to be that implementation and integration over time that can only be achieved through coaching.
Federico Ramallo (31:14) Right,
right. coaching brings you so many new perspectives of what you’re doing, right? I had the opportunity to be on a workshop from the coach of a women.
Hanna Bauer (31:24) It’s all right.
Federico Ramallo (31:39) It’s not soccer, it’s rugby. Women rugby team, they won the World Cup in Argentina and after that they were able to give us an executive worship to my team.
And my first thought was, what can I learn from a rugby coach, right? We’re in such so different environments, right? But anyway, I went there and it was such an amazing experience, right? ⁓ And it, as you said, you don’t know what you don’t know. So being, you know, being open to be coached is a first step towards, you know.
Hanna Bauer (32:04) Yeah.
Federico Ramallo (32:16) getting all of these insights and refreshing ideas.
Hanna Bauer (32:21) Oh yeah, I mean, it’s, I mean, it’s why we need each other. I mean, it’s part of community coaching. I would say it’s one of the first steps to community. Because when you talk about coaching and the having that openness, well, you’re talking about as a coach being able to help somebody with the blind spots, right? I that’s what we call them blind spots. We don’t see them. And then being in a safe environment where we can talk about those blind spots, you know, know, things that you may be feeling the effect from them, but maybe didn’t even give it a name. They’re just like, oh, that’s what it was.
So a lot of times in coaching, it’s not like, I didn’t know that. It’s like, I gotcha. I understand because this is what’s happened. So you actually are able to even enrich the conversation because now you have not only the evidence, but the review, the experience, and now we can start discussing, working through. And learning, again, is where we’ll accelerate the learning curve.
Federico Ramallo (32:52) Yeah
Right, right. And I used to rely on getting feedback from the team, but it’s hard for a team to give feedback to the leader because there’s a conflict of interest, right? Or there’s a risk for the subordinates to give hard feedback, right? ⁓ Whereas, yeah. Why is that? ⁓
Hanna Bauer (33:32) So let’s talk about that. Why is that? What be
the risk?
Federico Ramallo (33:38) That’s a good
question. I mean, I’ve seen it happen more with Latino people. I’ve seen it a little bit less with American people. But I think that for Latino, we have a cultural historical reason to do that, you know, given all the repression, all the, you know, situation that happened, you know, on our countries that, you know,
make us hesitate to give feedback, right? Because of the consequences, you know, I’m going to get fired if I say something, I’m going to get scolded if I say something, right? I feel that a lot of that is happening. The other reason I think that that’s happening is because the, least in the teams that I’m working with where we have engineers working in Mexico, they’re contractors, they’re interacting with…
Hanna Bauer (34:11) Okay.
Federico Ramallo (34:28) American executives, there is a disbalance of powers that, you know, it makes them a little more afraid to speak up. ⁓ So that’s kind of what I coach them on how to speak up. There is a moment to do that, you know, and a way, a protocol to speak up, right. And also following the policies of the managers that working with, right. So it’s a delicate balance, but it is possible, right.
Hanna Bauer (34:35) Uh-huh.
Federico Ramallo (34:55) And I’m a little bit fearless or I learned how to be fearless and being able to speak up. So I’m trying to coach my team to do that. But anyway, coming back to this, the the.
Hanna Bauer (35:05) But that’s a really good
point though. That’s, mean, honestly, and that’s part of my R in core is that reach, is that feedback loop.
Federico Ramallo (35:11) Right.
Hanna Bauer (35:12) Because
Federico Ramallo (35:12) Right.
Hanna Bauer (35:12) you’re really right. And I do understand in the Latin culture because of this more of that vertical, that empirical line. And where even is something that is still experienced in some traditional, many traditional institutions here in the US, right? I mean, you have the military, you have education, you know, where it’s very much a top down way of the culture is right. So there is somewhat according to
longevity right how long they’ve been there or position that they would people would hesitate so it’s something to be mindful of because that will also tell you like you mentioned well there is a time there’s a way it’s understanding what type of organization you’re in are you in a matrix organization where you know like the basically it’s project based and leadership is done by that or are you more in that traditional vertical you know or you’re more in that flat you know where it’s like basically one to the other to the other like
like an assembly line. So even in understanding that will help and be able to have that influence. Like you’re saying, like be able to speak up. So that’s a very good training. It is a good point. Something that we do have to be aware where you are culturally and organizationally and geographically, right?
Federico Ramallo (36:24) Right, right. the, and building that reputation, it’s a, it’s a process that you need to learn how to do. Right. yeah. And the, the other thing that I’ve seen happening in, in, Latin America is, know, if somebody invites you to a party, you say yes, it is rude to say no. Right. So you say yes, even if you’re not planning to go, right. Because.
You know, it is rude to say, I’m not going because I have another appointment or I don’t want to go to your party. Right. So people would say yes, because they feel that that’s, you know, that’s more, you know, they care more about the people if they if they do that. Right. They don’t they use these white lies, I guess. Right. And that’s a cultural thing that we also I also work with my my people to explain that.
Hanna Bauer (37:13) Okay.
Federico Ramallo (37:15) when we’re working with an American team, they appreciate to be that they’re succinct to the point and work on timing, right? There’s a time when you can say, give that type of feedback, whatever, know, or push back, right? And in, I said this many times, but I think that Latinos, we,
over promise and under deliver out of love, right? Because we, you know, we want to please, so we want to, want to, we promise because we want to make you happy, but then we under deliver because we are a promise, right? So whereas the American culture is more of a, know, if you over promise, you’re failing, right? You have to under promise and over deliver and then you’re succeeding, right? So
Hanna Bauer (37:39) Bye.
Mm.
Federico Ramallo (38:04) That’s the thing I work with my team on, you know, making sure that we work in alignment with the American culture.
Hanna Bauer (38:14) So there’s a couple of things there, I mean, because, I mean, not all organizations are created equal, even geographically, you know? So I actually, I work with a lot of organizations here because they have that problem, you know, even internally, because you say,
Federico Ramallo (38:20) Right.
Hanna Bauer (38:28) And that’s just some personalities, for example, some personalities will say yes to everything because that’s just, they’re very team oriented. So they’ll take on the extra work, although they really can’t until a point where they’re overwhelmed and overburdened, but it’s because the same feelings that you’re sharing, you know, like, hey, I don’t want to disappoint somebody or I really am very empathetic towards that person because I have all this going on. So I’m going to take on more.
than I can. So that’s even just a personality part. But one of the things is that happens a lot with over promising and under delivering, which happens in the US as well. That happens all over the place. It’s not knowing what your productivity is. And that happens with entrepreneurs all the time, with solopreneurs all the time, because we don’t even know where our time goes. Have you ever had a day where you feel like you’ve been working all day and got nothing done? Hello. You know, right. So
Federico Ramallo (39:19) Yes.
Hanna Bauer (39:20) It happens because we don’t have a way to really measure what are the milestones in a project? How long does it really take? When are we done? Because we have an idea, your idea of done, maybe my different idea of done. We just even have to come to a place where we define what done is when a project handover is done. So IT is a great example of that. Like where there is officially
Federico Ramallo (39:31) you
Hanna Bauer (39:46) When we’re done and we’re gonna hand this over, we’re gonna train your people so you take baton from there, right? Just like an overall as a project. But that in an organization, we need to do that just overall in our communications when it’s done. There’s done and then there’s done, done and there’s done, done, done, know, so even defining those things. So I don’t think many times is because here’s where we get into trouble, integrity.
Right? There’s an integrity thing. There is a pool of, I’m never enough, which comes to the whole being burned out. In reality, if we had the process and the systems in place, it’s not about controlling, but it’s about giving us a definition so that we can estimate how long is it going to take. Nine times out of 10 usually takes about half more. Like if you think it’s going to take an hour, it’s really going to take an hour and a half.
That’s the general rule of thumb. So you plan for that, but you see even amazing overachieving leaders back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back even in Zoom meetings without leaving some of what we call that white space in between. So in Six Sigma, we call that knowing your tag time. So you gotta know what is your tag time. Tag time is how long is it from the time that we conceptualize until it is done, including
Federico Ramallo (40:59) Right.
Hanna Bauer (41:11) You’re turned over. Like, okay, I finished that, but now maybe I’m gonna serve this other company, so now I need to open up all the software that they use. That’s gonna take time. Re-update whatever I need to do, make sure my thing is done, maybe like the background needs to change, whatever that needs to do. That’s part of the time it takes to actually do the work. I would say a lot of times even in Latin America is because there’s not a full understanding or having coming to the table of how long do things really take.
because that is one of the things in having that common language because, okay, you and I can know how long it takes, but does the leader know how long it takes? Or when they wrote a contract, do they really know how long it takes? And that’s a lot of times what happens. I see that constantly happening between sales teams and the production teams. Sales teams over promising to get the deal, and then the production team rushing, doing overtime, doing all these things to fulfill something that it wasn’t.
Federico Ramallo (41:39) Right.
Hanna Bauer (42:07) they’re in their capacity to be able to fulfill just so they can do the contract that the salesperson did so they won’t lose, everybody gets paid because it’s a big deal. So having those conversations, silos get in the way of that. So understanding, hey, we’re all here and how long do things take? And that’s where a process and systems oriented organization and culture, that’s where this comes into work. Because it shouldn’t culturally and all this part is the process keep us
integrates in the work and the service, standardizes the work so that both you can enjoy your life, I can enjoy life, and our customers get to enjoy the amazing service experience that they have with us.
Federico Ramallo (42:41) you
Right, right. Yeah, I completely agree. I’ve seen that happen over and over. People on the sales side over promising. And then when you get involved and you start asking questions, you realize that there’s so many things we can do to reduce the pressure on the production team.
Hanna Bauer (42:54) Yes.
Federico Ramallo (43:05) but also keep the client happy. It’s just about asking the right questions and ⁓ working towards a new agreement. So yeah, I’ve seen that happen. what happened on the engineering team on build software is we haven’t scrummed the acceptance criteria and the definition of done, which is what you’re describing. ⁓
Hanna Bauer (43:05) Mm-hmm.
asking.
Yeah.
Federico Ramallo (43:25) And the acceptance criteria, I used to think more of a checklist, but I revalued it, re-appreciated as what’s in it for the user. Whatever we’re doing, we’re building it for the user. So if you go to an ATM, you press the buttons, you want the cash, right? So it’s critical if the screen, the button is not the right color or, you know…
Hanna Bauer (43:39) Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. That’s good. Yeah.
Federico Ramallo (43:53) the font is maybe a little too big, it doesn’t matter. The critical thing is you get the money, right? Or the cash, right? So we can summarize any feature on that. That’s the acceptance criteria, right? What can we do to make sure that the cash is in the customer’s hand, right? What’s in it for the user, right? ⁓
Hanna Bauer (43:58) Yes. Yes.
That’s good.
So good.
No, you’re absolutely right. think if more people do that question in just general, because it’s true, the acceptance, not like here it is, but what are the acceptance requirements on the other side? Absolutely.
Federico Ramallo (44:28) Right. And we start adding that towards purpose, because it is our purpose as software engineers to build something that is going to awe the users. They’re going to either awe because it’s cool, or awe that you use it, no frustrations, it works.
You go, you it used to be, at least in Argentina, sometimes where you could not get cash or sometimes, you know, different things. But what I’m trying to say is that if a system is reliable, then you don’t think about it. And that’s a good thing, right? So achieving that, right? And with that, I start working on the purpose towards the engineer.
then can we automate this acceptance criteria? Can we automate it so that way we can guarantee that this expected behavior is going to happen in the future as well? And then the definition of that is, okay, how can I deliver this, right? It works on my computer, right? That’s usually the most people say.
Yes, but does it work on the server that the user is going to use? You put it out there and it fails because you have a file or you have something in your computer that is not out there. So you have to test it out there. And then getting the product owners, understanding what the product owners provide the requirements. That’s how I started the design practice because now…
Hanna Bauer (45:32) Bye.
Mm-hmm.
Federico Ramallo (45:53) we have better clarity from the product owners, right, better requirements. It started as a kind of selfish initiative of, I want to have less friction with the product owners, but then it evolved towards now we’re having a higher impact because we are all aligned, right? And that has been wonderful, right?
Hanna Bauer (46:10) correct.
Yeah, and honestly, I mean, what you’re talking about that that same process is really used a lot for that culture change because I mean, like, again, what’s the end goal? You know, like we can do all this task and production, we can have all these KPIs. Are they serving our people? Are they saving the customer? And just like you said, you know, what does acceptance look like? You know, and that’s like, yeah, no, for us, it makes sense, but doesn’t make sense for them. You know, this can be amazing for us and, we love it. And sometimes we see that right where people
fall in love more with their own process than they do with, does it actually do the work? So it’s so key. And I think that’s why also the technology people have such an interesting perspective that they bring to leadership because it’s all the system space. It’s a process. like you said, you’re testing it for failure points. And just like that, in culture change, in being able to have our leadership strategy, we’re looking at that. What are some of those failure points?
Federico Ramallo (46:42) Bye.
Hanna Bauer (47:06) you know, hiring practices, onboarding, you know, where are those failure points or hey, finance department thought we were done with this, but really technology was just getting started. You know, we like the lines are broken, the communication, the silos that are in the businesses. So it’s all of this part is the same thing works. You know, it has to be that flow, that fluid and an ability to test, but using human systems, based on the computer, it’s the human system that runs inside.
Federico Ramallo (47:16) Right.
Right.
Hanna Bauer (47:36) organization.
Federico Ramallo (47:37) That’s amazing. Hannah, I truly appreciate you being here today. We’re running out of time. Any final remarks, any advice to founders that are looking to bring more purpose into their role, their organization?
Hanna Bauer (47:51) one of the things that the listeners do need to know is that purpose very much has to do with what you’re doing today. And it’s one is that awareness aspect, right, is understanding that we do have a purpose. Our work is part of our purpose, but it’s not the entire purpose, especially when that working change environment I’ve encountered too with a lot of leaders that are starting to question their whole identity or, you know, role in the world, you know, what’s going to happen.
So the main thing is when you are on purpose, you’re able to execute wherever you’re at. So I will call our leaders to align for that. You know, I use the beat method. That’s one of the main things I started as a leader. So I wouldn’t be able to just have to be guessing, am I here, am I there? But it’s something that is a daily basis. And the same thing with culture. I know you can be tired, but culture is every day. You’re either adding to it
or taken away from every day. So that’s important that you stay strong, be bold, and be on purpose.
Federico Ramallo (48:51) Amazing. Hannah, it’s been a pleasure to have you here today. And I truly appreciate being able to have this conversation. Thank you.
Hanna Bauer (48:58) Thanks for having me.